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Kratom withdrawal

You know about Kratom addiction potential -you want to stop using Kratom!  So, what can you expect during Kratom withdrawal? And how can you cope? We explore here, and invite your questions about withdrawal from Kratom at the end.

Severity of Kratom withdrawal

From personal and anecdotal experience, the nature of withdrawal from Kratom and Kratom effects on body in terms of severity and occurrence seem to depend on a number of factors. The factors that contribute to Kratom withdrawal include:

1. Duration of use – The length of time you have been taking Kratom. The longer you have been using it the more severe the symptoms.

2. Type of Kratom – The type of Kratom you have been taking. Withdrawing from highly concentrated extracts of the alkaloids found in Kratom results in a worse withdrawal experience. Method of administration usually contributes to withdrawal symptoms, but as Kratom snort is not recommended, we assume that you are taking oral doses of Kratom.

3. Previous mental health issues – Anecdotal evidence from online forums suggests that those who suffered from depression prior to becoming dependent on Kratom find withdrawals particularly difficult.

4. Personal pain tolerance -It also seems that some people just manage Kratom withdrawals better. There are many who claim quitting Kratom even after more than a year’s daily use is no more difficult than quitting caffeine, while others talk about it like being hell on earth. So there certainly is a subjective element.

My Experience withdrawing from Kratom

I have personally withdrawn from Kratom after more than a year’s use and can therefore talk about my own withdrawals which I have been led to believe mirror those of others but not necessarily in their severity or duration.

I took Kratom leaf twice a day, ever day for over a year. I decided one day to quit cold turkey; I used up the last of my supply and held my breath. I knew what was coming, I had tried to quit in the past but had always given up due to the crippling sadness that had enveloped me.

Psychological Kratom Withdrawal

Within 8 hours of my last dose of Kratom, I began to feel anxious and incredibly sad, despondent and plain depressed. It is difficult to describe the sense of loneliness and desolation I felt, everything seemed amazingly bleak. For me, this aspect of withdrawals was by far the most difficult to cope with and it continued for over a month. I must stress again that this was my experience others state that all their symptoms including the despondency disappeared after 4 or 5 days.

Physical Kratom Withdrawal

The other symptoms I experienced during Kratom withdrawal were all physical and ‘only’ lasted for 3 or 4 days. These self-reported symptoms during Kratom withdrawal are similar to those seen in individuals undergoing opiate withdrawal but are far less severe. If you have experienced other symptoms, please share them in the comments section of this article. The symptoms of physical withdrawal from Kratom included:

  • anxiety
  • cold-like symptoms
  • insomnia (the tick-tock of the clock just went on and on, night seemed as if it would never end)
  • lethargy/apathy
  • RLS – restless leg syndrome (it felt as if my legs were electrified and this contributed to insomnia)
  • sweating

Coping with Kratom Withdrawals

You can get through Kratom withdrawals. Kratom withdrawal can be a mere inconvenience for some and difficult for others. Here are some tips and suggestions based on my own experience about how you can cope during the period of Kratom withdrawal. Again, if you have other ideas, please leave them at the end.

  • I would advise anyone planning to withdraw from Kratom to seek the advice of a sympathetic physician. A prescription for a sedative like diazepam can help with the anxiety and insomnia. The problem is, though, that many doctors have never heard of Kratom and so will not know what to do.
  • You might want to take time off work/responsibilities during the initial stages of withdrawal as it can be very difficult to find the motivation to get tasks done.
  • It is also good to have a friend/loved one with you during the first few days as you can get quite despondent. This should be someone who knows that you are going through Kratom withdrawals and who knows what to expect as you go through the process of withdrawal.
  • If you are prone to depression anyway, then you really need to see a mental health care professional prior to quitting Kratom.

Kratom withdrawal questions

If you are going through Kratom withdrawal, you are not alone! We invite your questions about Kratom withdrawal. Or maybe you have an experience or feedback to share with other readers. Please let us know. We try to reply to all questions and comments with a personal and prompt response.

Kratom withdrawal

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Kratom withdrawal

March 2nd, 2012

The severity and nature of Kratom withdrawal depend on a number of factors. 1. How long you’ve been taking Kratom. 2. The type of Kratom you use. 3. Previous mental health issues. 4. Personal pain tolerance. More on Kratom withdrawal here.

Leave a Reply

959 Responses to “Kratom withdrawal
3:56 pm March 21st, 2012

hi, i been using kratom for over 4 month . Can you help me to get rid of it

5:01 am March 22nd, 2012

Hi Nicole. I’d suggest that you seek help from a doctor with experience in detox from Kratom to help supervise Kratom withdrawal. Do you live in a location where you can find a detox clinic?

10:55 pm March 30th, 2012

I just quit Kratom for the third time in six years and am on day 3 of the detox and have slept maybe 4 hours in that whole time. I didn’t ever get any depression or despondancy but I feel more lethargic then I’ve ever felt and trying to get through work like this has been hell. I have to sit down evry few minutes. The worst part is I literally cannot sleep despite being so fatigued I can hardly get up and walk around. The first day I had lots of anxiety, my skin felt like it was crawling, my eyes and nose watered profusely and I had restless leg syndrome especially at night. Most the physical symptoms are gone (day three) but the utterly crippling fatigue, mental fog and insommnia have yet to abate. Just so you know I took about 20-24 grams of Bali powder daily spaced out all day. I would dose upon waking up, once or twice before work, once or twice at work etc. all the way to the point where I had to wake up in the middle of the night to dose just to avoid starting to detox. I was a slave to this plant. All those people who deny Kratom is PHYSICALLY addictive have more than likely no real long term experience with it. I can guarantee this stuff will be illegal in five years.

4:36 am March 31st, 2012

Hi Justin. Thanks for sharing more about stopping Kratom. Has there been anything that has helped you, in particular during this detox or in the past?

10:54 pm March 31st, 2012

So far the only thing that has really helped me is to keep a positive outlook on things and realize that no matter how bad the symptoms get I will eventually be over them. For the first two days keeping warm, taking hot showers, drinking coffee to beat the fatigue, making lots of chicken noodle soup and generally lying in bed staring at the ceiling is about all I could do but they all helped. For some reason the hot showers really gave me a boost for awhile.

The hardest thing for me right now is the insomnia. I can’t sleep for more then maybe an hour a night and if it keeps up for another night or two I feel like I will have to go to a doctor to get a few sleeping pills just to allow me to get a few good nights rest. On my own I’ve tried Tylenol Pm, alcohol, kava and chamomile but none have really worked. The alcohol (one shot of rum…and I am not a drinker at all so I have little tolerance for it) allowed me to sleep for about 30 minutes but when it wore off I was just restless.

I guess I’m worried because I hear about heavy opiate addicts not sleeping for weeks at a time after detox and while kratom is not an opiate it hits some of the same brain receptors as opiates(or so I read). I drank about 20-24 grams of bali every day for six years so I don’t know what I might have thrown out of whack by doing so. The funny thing is with Kratom I had no problem sleeping at all. In fact one teaspoon of bali powder could help me get a few hours of sleep. Despite that I tossed whatever kratom I had left and won’t be ordering more just to sleep. I don’t want it in my life anymore.

1:09 pm April 1st, 2012

Hi Justin. If you’ve had some problems getting to sleep or staying asleep, it might help to consult an MD. Although I would not recommend sleeping pills, there could be alternative therapies that can help you get and stay asleep, or a referral to see a specialist.

4:17 pm April 9th, 2012

Hi Everyone: Thanks for the information and letting me know I’m not alone.

Kratom has just been banned in my home state, and I’m sure more states will follow soon.

As such, I have stopped taking it cold turkey after about 3.5 months. The worst part has been the aching feeling in my bones and some pretty horrendous headaches. Exercise and hot showers help tremendously. I am not a drinker, but the first day and a half alcohol helped, except for the next-day side effects, which were bad enough for me to stop drinking.

I am fortunate enough to have never gone through withdrawals from anything more than taking Vicodin for a week. I’m on day 4 and still feeling chills, deep bone aches and mild headaches, but I know it’s something I can get through.

Thank you again for the info and for letting me know there are others who have made it through what I’m going to make it through.

2:18 pm April 10th, 2012

Hi Aaron. Thanks for sharing. I have heard that it is also helpful to see a doctor and address any underlying or possible depression with pharmaceutical medications. Coming off Kratom makes these symptoms worse, and they can be treated!

Good luck and please let us know how you are doing.

9:56 pm April 10th, 2012

Update: Well I quit on a Wednesday morning and it took until the next Monday night to get ANY sleep beyond a half hour/hour. I finally did fall asleep though. All symptoms of the Kratom withdrawl stopped in about a week. I flushed the rest of it and feel great. Now when I wake up I’m ready to go and don’t feel like I need anything to function although I do like my morning coffee. More than anything I feel free again, like I’m no longer a slave to some sort of substance.

What this latest experience has done is made me really want to stay off all drugs for the rest of my life. Sure they might be fun and we might kid ourselves that we can handle things and that we will never let ourselves get out of control but it almost never works out the way we want it. The high ALWAYS goes away and leaves you wanting more and there is never an end to it. With things like Kratom eventually it isn’t about the high anymore it’s just about feeling normal and not sick. That’s slavery not freedom. I was a slave to Kratom for almost 6 years, literally unable to do anything or go anywhere without making sure I was dosed up and had a ready supply. I lived in fear of withdrawls.

For all you folks thinking about getting off this plant good luck to you. It can be done and when you really think about it you’ll ultimately feel better once you’re out from under its grip. Don’t be a slave.

12:59 pm April 11th, 2012

Hi Justin. I think that you make an important point here about addiction. Overcoming addiction is one act on the path of self mastery. Saving NO to the voice that wants us to repeat behaviors or programs of the past is so difficult…and we DO become a slave to our desires. I’m so glad that you have come out the other side. And I hope that your experience can help others looking to do the same.

CONGRATULATIONS and all the best!

9:16 pm April 14th, 2012

hi people ive been using kratom for the last 3months, ive been taking about 15grm daily like 6-7 in the morning and 6-8 in the afternoon everyday, really enjoyable thing but… and its my first day of giving up kratom just to test my self. its been so hard for me today feeling restless, dont wanna sit, but cant stand up for long no energy at all, flu like thing, watering eyes.i thought i had the control but i noticed that kratom takes the control so fast.i will post more experiance in 2-3days,,hope i will win not the kratom. my tarket is to stop for 1week.

1:15 pm April 19th, 2012

Hi! Great site and good to see, that there are actually some other people suffering the same way. Just to tell you quick my story:

I had a bad Tramadol habit for about 1,5 years. While quitting Tramadol I recogniced that Kratom could ease my w/d. So I started taking kratom but never stopps. Till this time you could nowhere read that it makes you hooked. So now I took Kratom almost for 5 years and approx. 60 – over 100g Powder (different types) each day. I could only function without starting w/ds for approx. 4 or 6 hours. Now I stopped using it on saturday. But due to I’m an idiot I used it sunday morning and Monday afternoon. But on Monday I throw all of my Kratom away and I am now on my third day without a break. Don’t know if I can say I am on day 3 of detoxing or if the other two days without kratom could be count. Anyway my fatigue is today a lot better. I can leave the house, going shopping but not going to work. Sleeping smeems hell to me too. Even with big amounts of Valium and bud. Today I feel restless legs and arms even in daytime. Hope that this night will be better and that I can tomorrow go to work.

But I would say after 3 or 4 days the symptoms are bearable. I know, when you are within detoxing, you’ll dont see a light at the end of the tunnel but read Justins comment! Congrats to him! And thanks to the guys from this blog.


6:38 pm April 21st, 2012

Hi Folks! Here’s my Update. Wow, a 5 year Kratom binge is a serious problem I think. If I ignore the two days within detoxing, I used kratom and count from the really last day I flushed that away and took nothing, this is my 5. day clean and I am not feeling well. Ok, its good enough to visit my parents and be a good boy for a few hours but most of the day I am lying around, don’t want to do anything (normally I am the one who is busy all day long).

I am waiting for the night without restless legs. I am so sick of smoking pod and taking valium which is much more than using kratom. But I’ll stand it. Hopefully this night will work well.

So till now I can say: if you was a serious consumer you must definitely count a week for not able to do thinks like going to work. Hopefully sunday night will be good. Because at Monday I have to go up in the morning and without and pot and diaz binge in the night and thats just for only max 4h sleep…

Will keep you guys updated.

10:02 pm April 24th, 2012

Okay, here we go: yes, after 3-5 days the worst wd are gone. But what I think for me the worst part is: that they are not as hard as the first few days but the won’t leave me alone. On Monday I took my last dose and now its Tuesday night. Till last night I had still restless legs so heavy that I have to smoke weed and take valium. Even daytime I feel the restlessness. And I am everytime cold (due to I am someone who nearly never freezes). Maybe this are the side effects of Kratom abuse: I felt nearly everytime warm and often were sweating. To be honest: was a big problem to me.

Okay, to cut it short: I am now 8 days without Kratom and I still have restless legs, cold chills, little fatigue, listlessness (but even a little), sometimes running nose and still very often I have to sneeze. My colleagues are thinking I have a little flue.

What I didn’t believed in front of my detoxing is the psychological effect. I thought this is something pussys have to deal with. But I you’ve liked to get up in the morning and give you the first few shots of highly potent kratom and you feel this feeling:” Hello day, whats going to do today. Work, I’m comming!” Then you took it the whole day and in the evening at home you began your Kratom binge. Great! You are awake till 1 or 2 in the morning (and thanks to kratom fit in the morning), playing on the computer, working something, repair in the middle of the night your RC and if you want, just lay to bed and fall asleep within 5 Minutes. Yes, I miss this shit!

But I have to be honest: while being a slave to that plant I didn’t liked it. Didn’t like to sweat while others feeling not warm, didn’t like to overdose and feeling bad, didn’t like to wait for the post man…and I often had times after this long year abuse, I felt this big amount didn’t make me feel good.

I have lived my life (and it was a good life) before using drugs (Tramadol & Kratom) 33 years without this shit. So where should be the problem to life the rest of my life without being dependend on Kratom?

Last statement: I’ve read everywhere detoxing lasts 3-5 days. I hope you make this experience. But be prepared after a long, long abuse in high amounts that you have to fight 1,5 – 2 weeks with detoxing (I’ve read from someone who needs 3 weeks – as long I have wd symptoms I only can hope that it not took such long for me…this evening I feel much better). Others said that they had a psychological craving for 6 months…omg…hopefully not!

All the best to you!

2:48 pm April 30th, 2012

So…today is my day. I was given vicodin for my RA, but had been on it since my best friend passed away in 2007. It was my coping mechanism. Any way, finally got a script for a legit reason, then was totally cut off. No notice. Went in for my monthly check up, and was told too bad, so sad. Convicts go through withdrawals all the time. That last line can be quoted! Woah! I am NOT a convict! Couldn’t they at least wean me off!? I mean, they’re the geniuses that put little ole 89 lb me on the big boy dose! After a day of hell, I went to my friends head shop. And lo and behold! Lord have mercy! She introduced me to kratom. As soon as those little gel caps desolved my w/d disappeared! At first I was dosing myself to compensate for the Vicodin w/d. Then after that first week, I was able to take half the dose and get the same results. So for the last 2 weeks (3 total) I’ve been at a pretty low dose. But! I don’t want to trade one addiction for another. No more the devilish better than the one you don’t. I don’t EVER want to take another Vicodin. And I don’t want to be chained to Kratom. Took my last dose (8 caps, 4 grams) yesterday morning. Gave the rest to my mom because I want her off the Vic’s. Woke up at 7 this morning. Ungodly for me! Took an antacid and a naproxen for my joint pain. Still feel heavy and highly unmotivated. Buzzy legs, guessing that’s the restless leg syndrome), energy is zero. And I’m usually like a hummingbird. No headache, but my eyes burn. I own my own business, and am the only employee, so no chance of staying in bed. But everything I’ve read on here just enforces my drive to be addiction free! Hell! I might even quit smoking after this. I’m hoping that since my stint on kratom has been pretty short in comparison, that the withdrawal will only last 4-5 days. Have had a problem with depression, but I attribute that to a horrible break up, and the prolonged use of Vicodin. So staying positive now! won’t be so hard. I’m willing to be deeply uncomfortable for a while in exchange for the rest of my life of freedom! Y’all give me hope! I CAN DO THIS! I WILL DO THIS! Going to be a looooong 1-2 weeks. I’ll try to keep y’all posted.

9:44 pm May 1st, 2012

I decided to check the blog again after having quit this stuff at the end of last month and have to say I’m glad to see that others are taking the step to quit this stuff too. It’s been a month or so since my last dose of Kratom and I feel great now, absolutely back to normal. The best part is that I can wake up in the morning and get going right away even if I forget to drink a coffee and when I get home from work I don’t feel like jumping straight into bed. With Kratom I couldn’t function until I had dosed up on the stuff and had a coffee and by the time I got home from work I’d nap for a few hours.

It does get better guys and gals. Just take the step to quit and ride it out. You’ll be surprised at how great it feels to not have to wonder whether or not the mailman was going to bring the goods or whether you are going to get to sneak away from friends, family or co-workers to dose up on the stuff because you know your last dose is wearing off. The chains this stuff had on me were very heavy indeed but I trust most of you know what I mean if you are struggling with Kratom or have had other addictions in the past. Sure it feels good or brings temporary relief but it ALWAYS goes away and lets you down, making you chase something unreal and, depending on the substance, makes you do stupid and dangerous things just to make sure you get your fix.

Best of luck to all you folks thinking of quitting and a big “hang in there” to all you folks suffering the crippling fatigue, restless leg, runny nose, sneezing and general achiness of the detox. One day soon you will wake up without having to make a bee-line for your stash just to feel normal.

1:45 am May 4th, 2012

Your answer is clonidine – ask your MD to prescribe it, 3x/day, for 10 days. You will feel no withdrawal physically, and barely any anxiety.

11:53 pm May 25th, 2012

Used for just over 3 yrs. Worked up to ~25gr/day – spread throughout day…Like Justin. I am on cold turkey day 21, and still feel pretty much the same w/d, except I am able to get SOME sleep at night, after I finally fall asleep. Still feel lazy, achey, restless, all the usual symptoms. What I am wondering, is if anyone knows whether a single dose will start the whole w/d process all over again? When is it safe to dose again, and not feel symptoms for days -> weeks? Or am I kidding myself into thinking that I can get away with 1??? I wouldn’t mind using it again, if I could somehow have the will to limit it to once a week, or so, but definitely don’t want to put myself through this month again!

10:58 pm May 30th, 2012

I have been using kratom (commercial bali powder) for almost exactly 2 years. I would estimate I currently ingest about 40-50 grams per day (I am a big guy, but I realize that is still a lot). I have never attempted to quit, but my shipments were late a few times resulting in the complete exhaustion of my supply. The first time was absolutely terrible. I used the remainder of my kray at night before going to sleep, and the effects were already felt in the morning. When I woke up, I was almost instantly overcome with crippling worry. I broke up with my girlfriend a few months before that, and all at once those feelings of sadness/loneliness started rearing their ugly heads. As more time passed, these feelings only got worse. I originally started taking kratom daily in order to avoid the breakup misery, but I then realized that all I had done was defer it. I tried going to work to distract myself, but I came home “sick” 3 hours later. At this point, it was like I was experiencing every single negative emotion known to man – sadness, grief, guilt, anger, anxiety, etc. I also had the shakes and was sweating as if I were wearing ski gear on a 100-degree, Florida Summer day. The rest of the day was spent laying down, staring at the clock, and cussing every time I heard a truck drive by that wasn’t UPS. I tried to engage myself in other activities or think about ANYTHING else, but it was impossible. The kratom finally arrived around 7:30 pm and instantly brought me back to normal upon consumption. This was the longest day of my life, and was the first time I realized I was addicted.

That was the worst of the worst. Since then, I have come to believe that kratom addiction is at least 80% mental. I think the worst time to quit the stuff is when you don’t have any left at all. The fact that you absolutely cannot have any immediately creates an initial level of despair, even if the WD has not set in yet. Several times since the day of the story I just shared, I have gone 2 or 3 days without the stuff. Just 2 weeks ago, I went camping with a few friends. I only took about 10 grams during the first morning. The rest of the time, the combination of my good mood and a bit of alcohol left me with no desire for kratom. I felt great the entire trip. Considering that this is over a year and a half after that initial bad WD, you’d think it would have been even worse if it was mostly physical – I had at that point taken it for a much longer duration and in higher dosage. But this was not the case…So I think the key to quitting is distraction and a good state of mind (not some new groundbreaking concept).

ANYWAYS, after 2 years, I am ready to expel kratom from my life. I am tired of being tired and I am tired of my creativity being held hostage by that green monster. While I wouldn’t say kratom has ruined my life, it certainly has postponed it. For those experimenting with kratom, please keep it at just that.

I’ll write an update once the habit is kicked.

Amneris Bleu
2:56 am May 31st, 2012

DON’T USE!!!! PLEASE, DON’T!!! Kratom ruined me-and my bank account, which means I may now lose my house. I was HIGHLY addicted to kratom extracts, and I spent every cent I had – and didn’t have – on them. I lost my will to be me….I lost everything that was in me that made me who I really am.
And yes, I thought I could use “just this once”. I quit a couple times in the past 8 years, but went back thinking I could use “just this once.” It always turned into another long run with kratom, who was happy to take more of me, from me.
Please don’t go back-you made it this far, hang in there. I’m in the midst of quitting again, and this time is IT. IM DONE WITH KRATOM. The vendor no longer sells what I was using, so I have to quit, no choice. It will get better! Don’t give in to kratom’s beckoning. She just wants to hurt you, hold you in her grip. I feel bad, physically and mentally, but I wont go back to kratom. I won’t. Screw that stuff…it will slowly steal you and your life.
I went a year without kratom, and I was happy and energetic. Why did I go back to it? Because I’m an addict…no other reason-an addict who didn’t deal with the issues she needed to in order to stay clean.
Just hang in there-you can do life without kratom! And so can I!

3:03 am June 1st, 2012

I have been on kratom for over 5 years and really want to quit. I began by taking kratom to handle withdrawals for a vicodin addiction that I was taking for a severe pain issue. At the time, there was little known about kratom and all I read said it was non-addictive. I am not sorry I started taking kratom, it is still way better than vicodin, but I am really ready to be free of it. Over the years I have cut my dose by over half, but now when I’m nearing the end, each reduction gets harder and harder physically. I am a single working mom and cannot afford to take weeks out of work, the most time I can get to be “non-functioning” is a few days. I was wondering if anyone has tried the “restless leg” non-prescription medication available at Walmart, and if they had any success with it? For me, this is by far the worst symptom and the most unbearable, and if I can figure out how to ease this symptom my chances would greatly improve. I have to be honest, Steve’s post scares the bejeebies out of me (I feel for you Steve!), as I could not function through a month of severe withdrawal, I am too much of a weakling! So I’m trying to be as prepared as possible… any suggestions are welcome, and thanks so much for those who updated their success stories, it really helps!

12:12 pm June 1st, 2012

You guys should really tell it like it really is. I have been on this stuff for four years now and it is not the demon you make it out to be. It has helped me get my college degree and has helped me through some overall pretty challenging times. I used to resort to alcohol during those times and that is what ruined my life and has made me fail many times. Kratom is wonderful but it is so damn expensive I have a hard time using it myself. My wife reminded me the other day how much I was spending on the stuff and it made me sick. Something like $1000 in the last three months. If it was cheaper I can guarantee that none of you would be on this site right now. Just like I would not be. I am a daily user by the way and I probably have worse withdrawals than you do. I quit for three months once. I felt just really irritated, unfocused, restless and all of the above for about a week or two and then I would use a little pot before bed time. By the way I hate marijuana. But it works for getting to sleep at night. Getting some rest will speed the process up. Your body recovers faster when you sleep. It even helped me during the day after I had enough THC built up in my system. Hope that helps some of you. Stay away from Benzos though. Chances are you will become more addicted to those and talk about slavery; you can die from those withdrawals. A few celebrities have already. I am going to take a different approach this time though. I just ordered a new batch tonight. I am going to make thirty little baggies that I also bought and make that 16 ounces last me the entire month. I do not want to stop and I figure I can afford $160 dollars a month. I would spend more than that on useless crap to entertain myself if I did not spend it on Kratom anyways. But if you really think Kratom is the devil and you need to get away from it then stay away from real drugs my friends. Just say no.

9:11 pm June 1st, 2012

Tom, while kratom is not in the same class as benzos, it is still a drug and all drugs have their dark sides. I personally have no difficulty paying for it, so that is a nonissue in my decision to quit. I’ve gotten and maintained a good job while taking it daily and finished my masters while on it as well, so it is definitely possible to function and get things done (which is why I said in my previous post that it did not completely ruin my life). I simply want to quit because 1) I hate being dependent on anything (even needing coffee in the morning makes me uneasy) and 2) to regain my identity. Before taking kratom, I would come home from work and write, compose music, or meet with friends. On kratom, I just want to go home and be by myself while I play video games or watch TV. Kratom sapped any ambition I once had.

If you are happy with it, then that is nobody else’s business. The point of this page is to demonize the addiction itself and help those looking to quit in their journey.

As for my path to freedom, yesterday, I cut my usual daily dose of 40-50 grams down to 25. I don’t think I will have success doing it cold turkey, so I am going to wean myself off over the course of a couple months. So far, the drop in dosage has been fine. I noticed it very slightly a couple times, but there was never any discomfort.

2:35 am June 2nd, 2012

Day 28, and still cold turkey. WDs have mostly subsided, but still lack energy. Pretty much sleeping through the night. To Tom, money is no issue for me. So you are wrong about that being the reason for being on this site. This has nothing to do with the cost, at least in monetary terms. For me the cost is what I would consider freedom…Freedom from my next dose. I feel like I am through the worst of it, and plan to keep it that way. No “just once” in my plans at this time. It is nice to wake up, come home for lunch, and home from work and not have the first thing I do be brewing a batch. That made me feel like a prisoner. I agree the RLS thing was about the worst symptom, since that was what seemed to keep me from sleeping. If I had to do it again, I would look into the clonidine that Ridge mentioned, at least for short-term. I am no longer so achey, also. I wouldn’t call it the devil, but I would definitely warn anyone considering this stuff, to seriously consider their will power, and whether they would be able to limit their usage. Good luck to anyone else going through this! Reading these posts has helped me. I also agree that when I first researched Kratom, all I seemed to read was how it wasn’t addictive, and actually used to break other addictions. If only I had known…To Bleu, I hope the best for you, and will be taking your advice. Thanks and all the best.

4:38 pm June 2nd, 2012

I understand how you feel Tom, because I don’t want to villafy kratom either; I looked into every possible detox option available for YEARS to get off of vicodin, and I truly believe I would not have been able to do it through “conventional” methods, as they all required money I didn’t have and an extended stay in a hospital (my daughter can’t take care of herself!). So kratom was a SAVIOR to me. But there are addiction issues, and from my research, they can vary from minor discomfort to withdrawal symptoms similar to those of coming off heroin. From what I’ve read, the type of kratom (these vary WIDELY – one type can be an entirely different animal from another), how you take it (smoke it/ingest it, etc) and what you take it for makes a big difference. Those who use mild kratom occasionally have a very different experience compared to those who use it daily, etc etc etc. I personally have severe w/d symptoms, I take it several times daily via capsule, and have to get up an hour early each day to take my dose to avoid them. I am AGAINST the government ban of kratom, because without it I would have been in a world of trouble. At this point, I am ready to get off kratom because my energy levels are very low except when I first take it, and the withdrawal symptoms are scary, it frightens me to be that dependent on anything. I can tell you from personal experience that after 2 hours after missing my dose, I get SEVERE restless leg syndrome EVERYWHERE, not just my legs but my whole body has the feeling the need to move and stretch and it’s very uncomfortable – I must look like a crazy person while going through it. It keeps me from sleeping and has woken me up in the middle of the night. I also get freezing cold, nothing can warm me up, I also yawn incessantly, which doesn’t sound bad but trying to work while yawning every 30 secs. is not a good thing. I get severe cold symptoms – body aches, stuffy nose, extreme fatigue, almost like I have the flu. And that is after just two hours past my dose. I have never made it longer than that because the symptoms are terrible. I believe everyone should be able to make their own choices, and I appreciate that your symptoms are very mild – I’ve heard that many times from people that they do not suffer severe w/d symptoms from kratom, and I ABSOLUTELY agree that kratom is better than alcoholism – I’ve seen what that can do to people first hand and if kratom keeps you from it, you should take it! Just please don’t say I’m not “telling it like it really is” because my experience has been very different from yours and what you experience is not the only response to kratom. I’m curious – that sounds really expensive, I don’t pay even close to that and I take kratom every 3 hours, what type of kratom do you use? Is there a way I can contact you via email? I may be able to suggest a site for you.

5:39 pm June 4th, 2012

Melanie, have you considered trying to first transition to a weaker form of kratom, such as bali powder, before quitting?

11:58 am June 5th, 2012

This is my story. A number of years back I had a few bouts with opiate withdrawal. They were short but rather violent experiences. After the opiates I started drinking. I wasn’t totally out of control but I’d have four drinks a night and often more on weekends. I discovered Kratom a few years ago. From the first time I tried it I basically stopped drinking. It worked really well. My doctor was happy with me because my blood work was looking much better. I certainly felt better but that was the problem. I felt great! I started using the strongest extracts I could find because they gave me a short but enjoyable rush. Once I was using extracts I really didn’t increase the amount I was taking. I found that too much would make me feel lousy so I stuck to a strict measure. While using Kratom my career was going great and my life seemed in control. However, over time I became more and more isolated. After work I had to get home to go through the daily routine. At first my friends wondered what was going on with me but I just kept telling them I was busy. After a while they kind of gave up on me and I don’t blame them. What started to wear on me was my lack of sleep. I found that if I indulged after work then by 9:00 PM I had tons of energy and couldn’t sleep. Over time that started to wear me down. After two years of this I finally decided that I had enough. I just picked a Saturday and quit. My logic was that I had a whole weekend to get better before the week started. Big mistake. For the first two days I slept like I hadn’t slept in years. On Monday I felt that sickly feeling, mental fog, lack of energy, and chills/sweats. At night I had horrid “restless body”. It was in my whole body, not just my legs. It took a good three weeks to really start feeling better. After that, I went six months without drinking or Kratom and was feeling great. Then I figured “I can control it now. I’ll get some and only do it once a week”. Wrong. Six months later I’m back in the exact same situation. I finally decided that it’s time to stop again. I wasn’t looking forward to going through the whole ordeal again but what choice did I have? This time however I tried using a taper. When I indulged I usually mixed the extract with water and chugged it down. This gave me that initial “Whooosh”. I noticed that when I used capsules didn’t have the same effect. They worked but it was more like a time release profile. I’m not sure why. I used capsules for ten days and slowly reduced the number I took each day. Did I feel lousy? Yes. But I didn’t feel nearly as lousy as I would have if I had just stopped. Above all I could sleep at night. Four days ago I stopped all together. It has been really tough but not nearly as tough as the first time. I still feel ill and I get some restless body at night but it’s not nearly as bad. I feel like I’m going to get through it OK. I think Kratom is a very useful substance and should never be scheduled. It got me to quit drinking and for that I’m very grateful. For those of you, like me, who went too far and are struggling to quit. Hang in there. Well, that’s my story. I hope it was useful to someone.

4:41 pm June 6th, 2012

Hi Guys,

I am coming of kratom, I have been on it probably a year and a half the hard stuff, ultra enhanced dosage about 2-3 tablespoons every couple hours. Before the kratom I was on other things so I never really came down.

I have been off it about 4 weeks, physically I am better but mentally I am depressed and I had depression to begin with.. I am on meds so the pshycological effects are still hard on me.

When I came of I came clean with my dad, I had no more kratom Day one I was shaking my vision was blury , hot and cold sweats and dizzy. Second day, anxiety no sleep rls, had not eaten. I had found some kratom in my room I thanked jesus downed it and threw it back up uncontrolably. Then I started to shake and broke down told my father. He drove me to a walk in clinic where they sent me to the ER

I was admitted and was in the hospital for about 8 hours. I was dehidrated and they pumped me with IV fluids and had no idea about Kratom.. Credit to my ER doctor, she spent a good hour looking online and got the chemical structure and knew what might be in store for me.

she gave me some meds to bring down my blood pressure and sent me home. The meds she gave me made me real tired and I exerted myself real easy. I stayed home from work for a week. These pills made me real tired and I could barley move. I called my Pcp and he instructed me the dosage was set too high he cut it in half.. Even after, I still was tired so I just stoped taking it.

Week Two – back on the job, real irritable and hostle, no motivation at all truley had to drag myself threw the week..I have had dihariah even up to now week 4. Joint ache still especially my back.. My sugestion to someone out there going threw this bad like me??.

Stay in toch with your PCP your going to need them!
If just coming off dont be affraid to go to the ER if the landing gets hard. Dont get dehidrated!!!..

Having someone near who knows and can drive you places helps big time.. while my father did not like it he was there for me and said he was proud of me for doing what I was doing despite the crap he gave me in the meantime :-).

Thats where I am feel free to contact me if anyone needs some moral support!!!!

8:25 am June 11th, 2012

I am very grateful to have found this site. I am currently going through kratom withdrawal (I’ve been using the bali powder), and am doing my best to tolerate it. I started taking kratom as a substitute for opiates when I was getting repeated ovarian cysts that would rupture. Doctors prescribed oxycodone, morphine, etc. And those drugs were very harsh on me.

I have been taking kratom on and off since about 2009 (because of the ovarian cysts), and that slowly progressed from taking it once or twice a week, to every day. My doses peaked at one point (1.5-3 TBSP per day), but then I lowered it to .5-1 TBSP per day at most (and that is what I’ve been taking for the past 3-5 months).I have stopped it before, and I got the restless leg stuff for a night, plus some nausea, but this time it is a lot worse.

I can’t wait for these symptoms to go away (especially the restless leg and the nausea, so I can at least sleep).Thankfully, I’ve got ginger root and gravol to help with the nausea, but I really wish I could sleep more than anything else. My brain is a mess, I’m so sweaty, and my stomach is in weird knots.

I have read about how kratom has been a financial toll on people – I haven’t had this issue at all. I would buy it in bulk online from a store in my country, and it was actually quite cheap. I put much less money towards kratom than I did to alcohol (and I don’t drink a lot). Regardless, just because it is legal and easily available does not mean it is harmless.

I can go just over 24 hours without taking any kratom, and be okay, but once I go right over that 24 hours, withdrawal kicks in and boy is it unpleasant.

My brain is mush right now, but I’m so glad I found this. I will check back 🙂

6:01 pm June 15th, 2012

I’ve gone on/off kratom several times in 6 years. Usually I can go cold turkey without any issues – and I have multiple times – going for months on, then months without it, never feeling a withdrawal of any kind. The last 18 months have been different, though. I was in a terrible place back at the beginning, and so much has changed now. I’m no longer in the terrible place I was, where I first began using it to numb the sting of a failed 9-year relationship, and the loss of a loved one.

I only ever used crushed or powdered leaf – I never dabbled in extracts. Given how powerful the leaf can be, I had no interest in extracts, and I think the people who make/market them are utterly irresponsible.

Usually I have no trouble with stopping – but now I’ve been using bali powder using daily for 18 months – 2x a day. 4g in the morning and 8-10g at 5-6PM. I can wean down to smaller amounts easily but if I stop, I get the restless legs, the sweats, etc. It’s a different dependency this time.

In order to quit you have to lower your doses, and extend the time between them. You will have to “pay the piper” eventually in some way, when you do go cold turkey at the finish line. I fully expect to face a weekend of feeling sick.

I consider this about 2X as strong as coffee ‘addiction’ – it’s a gray area for sure. I would have the same apprehension about quitting my morning coffee, but I’ve done that before. I want to quit now, and am weaning the dose down over time. I hope some day soon to be free of it entirely. It’s a monkey on your back, for sure.

People who insist it’s not addictive, that you can quit at any time – I now think of you as apologists. You are not on the level.

2:12 am June 16th, 2012

Cold turkey day 42. Still not sleeping like a champ, and have RLS most of the time, and especially when I first lay down. Was just about to have a dose of tea. I had convinced myself that I can have just one dose a week, and not have any problems. I started boiling some water and came back here, to see if anything would convince me not to have any. Thanks to JustHuman, I dumped out the water, and am going to refrain. It just doesn’t seem worth the chance of starting to withdraw all over again. The last thing I want is to be facing the same problem tomorrow of feeling sluggish, wanting a dose, and having an argument with myself if it is ok or not, although I suppose I will be facing that whether I have some or not. Hopefully it will be easier each day to not have any, if I don’t ever start again. Not sure if I will ever take Kratom again, but until I don’t feel any of the ill effects of using it for 3 yrs, it just doesn’t seem worth it. Hopefully even after all of the bad effects are gone, I will be able to remember how lousy it is coming of of this stuff.

1:17 pm June 18th, 2012

Well, I tapered for weeks, and finally dropped it altogether yesterday. I’m paying the toll today. I did not sleep last night – restless legs, runny nose, watery eyes, depression. I needed 3 cups of coffee yesterday not to be lethargic. This stuff needs to be regulated, and come with warning labels. It’s an addiction in the true sense. All of you out there who sell it – you are proto-drug dealers. I am completely serious.

2:32 pm June 19th, 2012

Now I’m sailing past 48 hours – I got only a little sleep last night. It’s getting better today, though. Body is lethargic, the mind heavy and a bit unstable – mostly pangs of sadness, anxiety, and that ‘hollowness’ of reality moving more slowly, and with less enthusiasm. One learns the true meaning of “will” since it takes so much effort just to move about. I can feel everything settling back down, equalizing. I’m having to deal with the reasons I medicated in the first place – what I’ve been running from. There’s an element of honesty with oneself, in realizing the drastic changes of the last 18 months.

I’m writing all this down so people who’ve been addicted to Kratom only (and in my case, just the leaf powders) might have an idea what to expect. In my case I had coaxed out it’s euphoric, bracing effect’s duration by about 3x, through mixing it with traces of a few other things. Not the smartest exploration. I will not ever divulge that recipe to anyone. I wish I had known more about this plant when I first encountered and used it, back in 2004. There wasn’t much info about it, then.

9:00 am June 20th, 2012

Hi Ally…

I can relate to your story and your “brain feeling like mush” I am going to take a guess and say, you probably have poor cognitive function, hard time paying attention and bad short term memorey.

scared that your brain will be stuck like this forever… I went threw the same thing a few years back when I came off alchohol.. I went on a bender weekend and drank 24 hours for 3 days hard stuff. I came off I felt probably what your feeling…It does get better, your mind comes back.. Its a amazing thing.. Your brain is like a big electrical box with circuts running all around what happens is your brain kind of “reprograms” itself instance “OK this circut does not work anymore, need to develop or find a shortcut”. Also go see a Pshycophrmacologist I know I did not spell that right.. Tell them what your going threw be honest and they will most likey prescribe you 2-3 meds non additive but help recovery time in half.. They help bring back the nurons that where toasted.. I dont want to tell you how long it took me to “come back” its diffrent for everyone the point is I did come back and felt normal.. I also had the kratom experiance as well so I can relate to that as well…Take it one day at a time try not to think ahead saying “oh god I am going to be like this forever”. It will make you more depressed and depression is a HUGE factor in the scheme of things. I found when I got depressed I would just take a nap.. Kind of shuts the brain down you wake up, kind of like rebooting a computer when it screws up..

You will be ok just stay off the bad stuff.. take only precription meds.

9:49 am June 20th, 2012

Hi Guys,

My friend and I both got into this stuff over a year ago..Why I stopped?.. Money and they stopped selling the endo Enhanced the most potent kratom you can buy.. It was a blessing, I know I needed to get off… I was not even getting the warm feeling anymore just taking it to stop WD.. Well I woke up before my friend did please heed my advice cold turkey does not work with the majority.. If you got off it that way great for you!! Those who try the “taper” method it really does not work. Your still taking it and your going to have those hard days where you say screw it take a big dose and back in the rabit hole you go.. My buddy who turned me on to it is trying or has been trying tapering… He called me yesterday, at the beginning stages of WD he was miserable. Only thing I can do is try to give back to any of you that have suffered or are suffering from this thing..
you can beet it.. Please if you need help go see your PCP. don’t worry about work, that was the first question I asked. They by law as most of you know can’t disclose anything. They will most likely give you a doctors note that will simply say ” Please excuse so and so from work for XX amount of days. Thats it no details.

5:52 pm June 22nd, 2012

Ive been on Kratom 1 year now., 156 grams last me about 4 days. I have quit many times through the year, Ive had 1-2 day withdrawal. I think the worst withdrawal was 4 days. But they were very very mild compared to Prescription Opiates. I DO sympathize with my fellow kratom and ex kratom users. TAPER YOUR DOSE, less and less then be done with it. Drink water and take Flintstones vitamin c ( not the one with Iron) stay away from caffiene. You guys must admit, it is safer than anything out there for Opiate witdrawal. However, it is what it is. If you desire to quit, DO IT. You all have the power, not any of the substance. Oh, and another thing that did help was loperamide. IN NORMAL dosages. Ive decided to hang it up for a bit. But I know ill be fine. Take care guys

3:03 pm June 25th, 2012

Well, here I am, 8 days since I touched the stuff. The withdrawal period of no sleep has passed, and I am now sleeping well. I took ashwagandha and kanna (sceletium) to ease the more difficult parts – depression, anxiety and other psychological symptoms. Exercise has helped immensely. I feel better. I really could’ve picked a much less stressful week to end my dependency, but these things happen. My body and mind were just so sick of it – my wallet, too. Do yourself a favor. Stop. Tough it out. It’s definitely worth it.

9:20 pm June 29th, 2012

Hi, I am going to assume right off that I probably will not make many friends here. You might assume things about me that are not true and then discard my questions. Dunno. I am really asking. I want to know.

My dad was a blackout drunk. I should have been the addict he was but it didn’t turn out that way. I have tried lots of things but never heard of kratom. I read a lot of sad stories above about withdraws, but seriously… Whats the down side of using kratom while your on? Does it do something to your body? Do you shrivel? Is your mind actually damaged by kratom? I listen and when reading between the lines kratom seems like marijuana because it can have some side effects but none as damaging as say like cigarettes or alcohol.

The withdraws seem like they are a challenge but also not really life threatening. So what is really so bad about it? What I kinda really want to know is how fun is it while your on… but I’m gonna bet no one will answer that one here 🙂

8:35 pm July 8th, 2012

Chris, I will be completely open and honest with you. On another page written by this author I went into detail about my experience but I won’t do it here, just a summary. I to was a black out drunk. I wouldn’t drink for weeks but when I did I had no breaks. It was usually on the weekends and Monday was typically hell. Because of alcohol I almost lost the most important person in my life and almost lost a great job. Then I discovered kratom on accident. My urge to drink completely disappeared and I have not had a drink in over a tear and a half which is something I never imagined I could do. Some people ask me why don’t I go to therapy or meetings. Usually the person you are talking to is not an addict, just college trained. And second, I have very strong beliefs and I don’t want anyone using there supreme being to try and help guide me. Now back to the topic. You can see that kratom has helped me emmensily. And the euphoric feeling I get from it is like no other. But there are several factors that one must way before trying it, like your Dad. Does he have an extremely addictive personality? Has he ever been physically addictive to any drug? Kratom can be life saving as it was for me but on the other end of the spectrum it can be a serious problem if you become addicted. Your whole focus throughout the day is when am I going to take my next dose, or will I be able to take it. Is the UPS truck going to make it today. Will I have enough to get through next week. Things like that. And the withdrawals. As they are not life threatening like some drugs they are a pain in the butt to deal with. The psychological effects can last for months causing the best of them to get right back to it. Kratom is enjoyed by thousands as a recreational drug who do not abuse it. It can also help you get off and stay off the worst of the worst. As in my case is it defiantly better than alcohol. Some of us always need a constant I am afraid to say. So there are so many factors you must weigh while the biggest one being is their a chance for abuse. If their is I would stay away. As you can see from some of the comments is that it becomes hell to quit and can have a strain on relationships and finances.

7:41 pm July 11th, 2012

Austin I thank you. I am blessed in that I was only ever addicted to the things of spirit. Those lessons learned by the ones around me served to educate me past the yearnings for those constants, as you say. Since my post here I continued to educate myself. I pursued the ins and outs and ups and downs of Mitragyna speciosa and the impact it can have in human experiences. I find that for the most part, online voices are those of the afflicted. Most of the wanderlost are the ones most willing to pipe up and disavow the fun of their adventures into kratom. That is not to say I deny those who simply puked on first try and my sympathies do extend… but I merely point out the loudest voices are those who are bored and need stimulation in the sense of recognition for cries for sympathy. I have come to fine the vast majority view kratom as simply a beneficial herb. some for pain and some for fun. A small percentage dose to addiction and those end up becoming our main examples. I appreciate your candor Austin and you have my respect brother. 🙂

Andrew anderson
3:18 am July 16th, 2012

What is the best of medication used to cut down the withdrawal effect. How long the dependent on that medication . I tried sustain alone but it wont worked because of the insomnia and boredom . I dont know what i am .

1:08 pm July 17th, 2012

@Andrew….the best medication to minimize the withdrawal is benzos. Klonopine and Lorazapam(Ativan) seem to work the best. Klonopine has a longer half life but numerous studies have said that Lorazapam is better for the liver. I recommend the Lorazapam 1mg and take as needed especially before bedtime. It should only be 3 to 4 days that you need to take them to get through the worst of the worst. Then try melatonine until your body is adjusted to not having kratom in your system. Stay away from Xanax if it all possible. Good luck buddy.

4:54 pm July 17th, 2012

Hey guys and gals – I am just coming up to this site, I found Kratom 2 months ago and have been using it everyday to help with depression and anxiety, it has worked wonders for me… I see that the majority of you ABUSE this PLANT, and with ABUSE comes problems. Just like any other substance abuse is going to take a toll on you. I use 5-10 grams a day, and I have been off for 3 days now, and the other symptoms I have are psychological, and a little muscle pain, which is completely normal for me.

Kratom used in moderation and not in such high doses is GREAT for depression, anxiety, and pain relief…. I wish you the best in the future and with your withdrawals… Used in moderation this plant is great, I don’t like to see it get a bad rap because of its addiction potential..

9:28 pm July 17th, 2012

@Tony. AGREED. I have cut down my intake down to about 10 grams a day of Bali and like you, it has worked wonders. As I said in previous posts I am not sure if I want to quit it entirely, extremely afraid of the future. Thanks for sharing.

6:04 pm July 19th, 2012

OK, so I am doing this for real. I tried the taper last time I posted, but I didn’t take it seriously enough. Now I am going cold turkey (sort of) and here is my progress so far:

A few days ago, I obtained some adderall in order to help me get a monstrous project completed in time. I took a dose of 10mg in the morning two days ago. While I was just expecting it to keep me awake and help with concentration, I was not expecting the pleasant euphoric feeling that came along with it. I took another dose of 10mg around one or two o’clock, and another around eight. The last dose was a mistake. I had gotten everything I needed to do done, but the adderall in my system kept me from sleeping. Although I only had that euphoric feeling in the morning, I had no desire to take any kratom at any point during the day. It was only at about 3:30am that I took about 8g of it (crushed bali) to help me fall asleep. The next morning (yesterday), I made the decision to use this revelation to help me quit K.

I spent quite a while yesterday looking up anything I could find online regarding how to deal with kratom/opiate withdrawal, this board included. While I don’t expect this to be like withdrawing from a hard drug, I want to take every precaution. I figure if there is something that can help a heroin withdrawal, it can certainly help a kratom withdrawal.

My adderall regime was pretty much the same yesterday as it was the day before; only this time, my last dose was around 5 or 6pm, not 8. It once again stymied my craving for kratom. However, I think the adderall may only take care of the mental aspect of the withdrawal (the most difficult for me to handle). For physical, I picked up some imodium AD (loperamide). I took some around 7pm; however, people say it can take hours to kick in. There was a window of time as the adderall began wearing off before going to sleep that I felt a little unpleasant, but that passed quickly, perhaps as the loperamide kicked in. Then I took a Sominex to help me sleep. It took much longer than the stated 30 minutes to effect me. It was difficult for me to initially fall asleep, but I was eventually out like a rock.

So now I just intend to do the same thing today, but will take the loperamide every 4 or 5 hours or so. It has been 30 hours since my last dose and I feel perfectly fine right now. Hoping it keeps up. After day four, I will stop taking the loperamide, or perhaps lessen the doses over two or three days. I will likely take the adderall until day 5 or 6 (when I will run out anyways).

Besides all the medication I am using, I am also trying to approach this from a different viewpoint. Rather than suffering for days due to a lack of drug in my body, I just keep telling myself I have a bad flu. It will be over in a few days, I just need to rough it out. It can help from obsessing over the urge to take kratom to relieve the pain. Well…that is what I was going to tell myself, but so far, I have not needed that mental reinforcement.

4:47 am July 23rd, 2012

Update: Currently been exactly 115 hours (almost 5 days) since my last dose of kratom. I am surprised how easy this has been, considering I was at home all day during days one through three with nothing to really distract me. Had moments of slight anxiety on days two and three, but they always subsided quickly and didn’t leave me yearning for kratom. I took a little loperamide this morning, but am going to discontinue taking it unless I feel I really need it. I will take a smaller dose of adderall tomorrow and then be done with it.

My motivation, energy, and libido are all coming back fairly quickly as well.

7:18 pm July 23rd, 2012

@Matt thank you for sharing your experience. Many people will definitely benefit. The last time I went called turkey the depression was too much to bear. Maybe it was because I have been masking the depression and not dealing with it properly. Well anyway, about week 3 of no kratom I felt like I have never before. The depression was so much that I said to myself I understand why people take their life when they are suffering from this. I knew I wasn’t going to take my life because I already understood it was a chemical imbalance. Anyway, stay alert, and remember any depression is just a brain chemical imbalance and that’s all. But honestly it sounds already like you are through the worst of it. How long did you take kratom and how much?

7:19 pm July 23rd, 2012

*cold turkey…..sorry

8:21 pm July 23rd, 2012

And *bare. I’m an idiot 🙂

5:14 am July 25th, 2012

I’ve been taking it daily for over two years. Anywhere from 30-60 grams of crushed bali per day. Although I have a suspicion that my vendor has been supplying less potent product than they used to, so I may have unwittingly been tapering over the months…but that is just a hunch. Today marks the one week mark, but I must admit I just took a dose of 7.5 g. I discontinued the adderall yesterday, and I was pretty irritable last night, but that subsided after an hour or two. At around 10pm I was dead exhausted and was looking forward to a good comatose sleep, but then after being forced to watch a show with my gf, I was wide awake again with restless leg and all. Took some benedryl and was out in an hour or so. Today was the first day of taking nothing. I was fine until a little while ago (about 9:30 pm), when I suddenly got sweaty and had my first really strong urge to take more kratom. After a long and pointless debate with myself, I gave in. My hope is that I can control my kratom intake and have it once a month or so, but that might not be doable. If I find myself trying to talk me into taking more tomorrow, I am going to toss it all in a public trashcan where it cannot be retrieved.

BUT, I am yet to experience any depression or anxiety. I feel like kratom withdrawal for the most part just amplifies preexisting emotional instability. The couple times I did experience the depression happened during a time I was not over a breakup. Some people take kratom to manage their unrelated depression/anxiety, so I believe quitting kratom simply removes the shield.

5:20 am July 25th, 2012

And for the record, while kratom certainly has its dark side, I definitely think it should remain legal. It does have major positives for those looking to get off harder opiates or other drugs. And for those wishing to be discreet about their addiction (who isn’t?), or those without medical insurance, it is a godsend. The extracts can go, though.

12:52 pm July 25th, 2012

If you can try to do every other day instead of everyday it does help with the tolerance…. Taking a nice week break, and then switching to every other day has been really good for me. I still get to look forward to my kratom. Also taking some sort of benzo on the “off” days helps with the psychological “addiction” for me. Phenibut is something I have taken over the last couple weeks…. My advice is to taper if you can, and if you decide to start back up again just be careful, use it when you need it to help you as opposed to making it part of your everyday routine. If you can’t get your hands on adderall, Primatene Tabs/Caffeine are a good alternative you can get this non-prescription…..Good luck all! Hope this helps.

2:08 am August 1st, 2012

This is an interested discussion and I’m glad to come across it because I’m having problems with a Kratom addiction right now.

A little background on myself:

I’m 25 and have had an addiction to opiates since I was 15 years old…I got started with pain medication and quickly moved up to IVing Heroin at 17 years old. I was abusing opiates because they made me feel normal and for once in my life I felt like I was “whole” but then my family/friends found out, affording a Heroin habit started to cost a lot, and I started getting incarcerated for felony Heroin possession charges. I was able to get off Heroin by Methadone detox and also Suboxone detox before but it wouldn’t last long.

I finally quit using Heroin while incarcerated, was released after a year and stayed clean from opiates for about 2 years. It was great for awhile but then I started to crave opiates again and I didn’t know what to do because I didn’t want to go back to it all.

I then came across Kratom and thought it would be perfect for me because it was legal, the info I found on it said it was non-addictive physically, and it gave me the feeling I craved.

Right now I’m dosing 7 times a day and go through a little over 250 grams in around a week…it’s to the point where I don’t even get euphoria until around the 6th or 7th dose later in the day (I guess because by then I have enough built up in my system). It sucks though because Kratom is so short acting that I have to redose between 2-4 hours after my last dose. My main reason for wanting to quit is because I want to try being free from a substance again and I’m having a hard time fitting Kratom into my monthly finances.

I have gone without Kratom before because of some late deliverys and the withdrawal for me was pretty bad…it wasn’t as bad as the withdrawals I got from Heroin but it still sucked.

I guess right now I’m trying to come up with a plan to quit Kratom….I’m not sure whether I’m going to try to taper or just jump off. I have a bunch of Tramadol (and I know not to use these or benzos for more then a few days) and can get access to 10mg Valiums but I’m not sure if any of that would help.

Also…I have nothing against Kratom and I think it should stay legal but unfortunately I have an addictive personality and it fed my Kratom use.

7:57 pm August 1st, 2012

@Nick. What kind of kratom do you use. Bali, extracts, etc.

7:51 am August 2nd, 2012

I use Bali, I have tried out other kinds of Kratom but I never really felt anything. I’ve never tried the extracts.

Jay Wilson
8:34 pm August 8th, 2012

If you guys wanna get off kratom I can highly recommend buying kratom “stem and vein powder”, which is the bottom of the plant. You take 3 grams every 2 to 4 hours or so. Taking it before bedtime will also make you sleep great and eliminate restless legs.

You can buy kratom stem powder on internet for cheap.

It works so well that I even went to work without feeling the withdrawals at all. Just take a bag of powder with you to work and some large gelatin capsules

3:39 am August 10th, 2012

Like most of you have posted, I too am in the midst of quitting Kratom. I admit, this is nothing like the withdrawals I have had from percocet, or even Vicodin, but it’s still pretty freaking uncomfortable. I’ve been tapering for the past 3 days and I’m holding strong to the plan. I’m down to 1 1/2 tsp so far from a peak of 15-20 grams a day. That seems minimal after reading some of the other posts here. I’ve been dependent on opiates since I hurt my back in 2009. I’ve been using Kratom to kick my percocet addiction. But that pretty much brought on a whole new addiction. While Kratom has been a miracle during some nasty oxycodone withdrawals, I’m done with it and just want to learn to live with my pain the way others have had no trouble doing. I often wonder why I am so weak and can’t handle pain. I have the support of a very loving partner and feel like I can beat this once and for all. I wish you all the best of luck on your way to recovery. Be blessed.

11:37 am August 19th, 2012

I would to know wheter the writer of this blog successfully stop or still on ? I tried to quit right for a year abusing it . Please help me . I stop about 2 days and i cant do anything . Now i just tapering it slowly hopes thats worked on me . To the writer can you share how you stop ? Is it normal to feel like you are in badmood , booring , boredom , anxiety ? The worst part i think is the mental part , where it is very difficult . Is there a way to be less curving ???

Jay Wilson
1:05 pm August 20th, 2012

@ Mat

Yes, those called secondary post withdrawal symptoms. They go away in a few weeks or so

4:22 pm August 23rd, 2012

I have been using UEI for about 2 years and I am about to stop because it is NLA (no longer available). I used to use opiates because I had easy access to them. Right now I am afraid of the WD’s.

I am switching to a lesser extract and then taper off. There will be a time when I just quit not too far in the future. I’ll keep you posted.

8:30 pm August 23rd, 2012

i see. now i am at tapering it slowly .i am decreasing the volume . My administration is orally and the type kratom : boiled leaf = like a tea . i felt very painful when suddenly decrease large dose of it , but today i can handle it easily . I go out , make friends , watch movie , planning all kind of stuff that i like , it’s still feel the pain but i ignore it . sometime i get very anxious and panic attack , feels like blurred and going crazy , but it will go away the duration is depend .

12:32 am August 27th, 2012

Here’s my story: I’m a 38 yr old male. Had my first Vicodin around 15 years ago. I absolutely loved the feeling. Since then, I’ve never abused pain meds at anytime, although if i did come across a script, I’d jump at the opportunity to get some.

I found out about kratom a little more than a year ago, while casually browsing news articles on the web. The article was the typical, “state trying to ban kratom”. I did a quick google search, and started to read. I then found myself ordering some the next day.

Upon receiving it (maeng da), I was very cautious upon taking it. I took only I capsule the first day…never felt anything. The next day, I took 3….wow, I loved this stuff!
I’ve been taking kratom everyday for at least a year now. My normal dosage is just 5(2.5grams?) capsules in the morning (6-10am). I tried taking 5 more later in the day, but sometimes it was overkill, and I felt really like it was too much. Sometimes I’ll take two more capsules a couple of hours after my initial dose, and it’s like a booster…works great. As someone mentioned above, I cant really make it thru a 24 hr cycle without taking my dosage. If I dont have it, it feels like I’m trapped inside of my body desperately looking to feel “normal”. I must say that it is manageable, but very miserable(like having the flu)

Kratom is a wonderful alternative to pain meds. My job is very strenuous, and kratom helps me to cruise right thru it, with such a positive attitude, great energy, and just the most wonderful outlook on life ever!

BUT…kratom has a very dark side, which, as everyone whom has posted here can attest to. I find myself planning my morning as to when to take my dosage to prolong the effects. If I try to take more than what I usually take, it throws off my cycle, and I start to have withdrawals. I did try to quit a few times, but I always gave in to “taking a few” just so I could take the edge off(withdrawals). I’ve made it at least two days without kratom, and I was always wanting some. I really think I can quit…or at least control this.

I want to quit, but I’m really wanting to see if I can taper, so in the end I feel like I can control this. Compared to others, I don’t feel I take as much, but I think that that’s all biological. My five pills a day is just as equal to someone else’s 20…we both have tolerances, and are dealing with the same withdrawals….not sure if taking a lot more kratom increases the withdrawals symptoms though?

I’ll keep watching this thread to see what others say. Good luck to everyone, and remember they’re others out there that know what you are dealing with. I think sharing all of this info is very helpful to us all!

8:10 pm September 3rd, 2012

Hang in there Mat. What I am going to try to is taper using capsules. So as an example if I use 40 capsules a day then I will make it the 40 day plan. Every day I decrease by one. I will let everyone know how that goes. Good luck.

3:01 pm September 12th, 2012

Hi. I am on day 7 of withdrawal from Kratom Gold Extract. I had absolutely no clue that this stuff would for one, cause me to be addicted and two, make my body and mind do things I never experienced before when getting off of it. BUT there is HOPE!!!!

On Wednesday night last week I took my last dose. Thinking the next few days I might feel like crap but I had nothing pressing so I could handle it… so I thought. By the end of Thur I had so much anxiety I could barely stand it! Took a hot shower before bed and tried to sleep. Slept for maybe 6 hours on and off and woke up Friday morning feeling like I might die. I was sad, depressed, anxious, my heart felt like it would pound out of my chest, my mouth was so so dry, diarrea, nausea… couldn’t eat a thing. I thought if I pushed through it could only get better… so I suffered through Friday and Friday night. By Saturday morning I had given up. I needed help. At around 7 am I was waking my husband to take me to Urgent Care. They were so sweet to me. Researched Kratom, gave me an anti-nausea and anti-anxiety pill. Both only gave minimal relief for about an hour. They told me that any meds would just mask the withdrawals and I needed to get back on Kratom! I cried my eyes out to think about putting it back into my body BUT I got home and started back…. gagging all the time. Taking the Kratom again only gave a little releif. I am not sure why. Maybe because I was already in total withdrawal mode…?

Saturday 3 doses. Saturday night was a little better. Sunday morning I dosed, pushed through and showered and dressed. Even put on some makeup… I was determined to make it to church. (I’m a Children’s Pastor) Was dry heaving and barely funtioning but that morning I went up for prayer and told everyone I knew I could trust to pray for me and briefly explained what I was going through. Made it through Sunday with one more dose and was able to eat some lunch. Sunday night I only took 1/2 a dose and decided to fight through some of the other junk I was going through… nausea, headache, anxiety. But it was barable… I knew I wasn’t going to die.

On Sunday night I went back to church and I asked my Pastor’s Wife to pray for me personally. She has been fighting spiritual warfare for people for years. After I explained everything to her and cried my eyes out, she prayed for me like I have never heard. My body shook and the tears flowed so hard but when I stood up, my whole world had changed and I was ready to fight this thing! The dry heaves and nausea were bad but the anxiety attacks that never give mercy are the absolute worst… like the whole world is coming to an end, your mind is mush and you can’t function to even make a phone call…. that is the worst!!!!!!! Through God I found that I could overcome it when an attack came about. I only dosed when absolutely necessary. Sipping until the major attack was gone and then toughing through the rest.

On Monday I saw my family Dr. She took some blood, did a quick 3 min EKG and talked with me about the taper. All of the tests came back normal. She even wrote me a schedule to taper on and ensured me that i was going to get through this! What a relief!!!!

Yesterday I stayed around people. Followed my mother-in-law around. Went to lunch with my hubby. Ran some errands… anything to keep me busy and out of the house… where I usually am.

Today it has been 7 days and I am loving life and thanking Jesus like crazy!

With each day it gets better! Today I am 48 hours out from my last 1/2 dose and I slept all night long! Woke up this morning with a little nausea and some shakes. I have eaten a full breakfast and feel awesome now! I know it is not completely over… but I have the VICTORY!!!!!!!

My advice to any one who wants it would be… TAPER! See your dr or find a dr., get friends and family involved, seek God’s face! If you are truely serious about this then go big and do what you need to do to taper the right way and get help!

You CAN do it! And you will love life when it is all said and done! Don’t torture yourself and go cold turkey! I wish I would have known that in the beginning! You can taper from any strength and you can make it! Stay focused on the bigger picture and the wonderful outcome!

I wrote these on note cards and carried them with me EVERYWHERE. When I would start to feel sad or anxious… I pulled them out and read them out loud!

“…in all these things we are more than conqerors through Him that loves us.” Romans 9:37

“so if the Son has set you free, you will be free indeed.” John 8:36

Best of luck to you all!!!! May God be with you! 🙂

9:12 pm September 12th, 2012

Im glad you made it through – I have heard that extract is far far worse on withdrawls than the normal powder, you also build tolerance faster….. In my opinion stay away from the extracts!

10:59 pm September 23rd, 2012

Just checking in on everybody to see how the experience has been. It looks like we all had the same thing in mind about the taper. I have posted on here before but it was only recently that I started my taper. I had a three day weekend so on Friday I decided not to go about my usual pattern. The reason why is the day before, and the few days before that the kratom was wearing off faster and faster. I wasn’t taking anymore than normal but what really messed up the pattern was to add extract with the Bali. Well then I guess I did add more then. So on Thursday morning I take my usually dose of Bali, I would say about three grams. But unlike other days by 10am I was going into withdrawal. I was trying to get home but the usually aches and pains, plus the runny nose, RLS, etc. was a hindrance. But the really scary thing is I started to fall asleep at the wheel. No cars were around thankfully. I must of been out a couple of seconds but when I did come to I didn’t know what city I was in since I work and live in two separate cities. I immediately pulled off the road, got myself together, then made it home to dose. Of course I felt much better after that. And then had extract and felt really good. So now we are on Friday and I don’t take anything still concerned about what happened yesterday knowing that can never happen again. By 9am I wasn’t doing well at all. Four hours later I look at the clock and it’s 9:15. I started looking at several forums to see if there was anything I could do. I saw a posting about Immodium being good to suppress symptoms. By 12pm I couldn’t take it anymore. I took 6 gel caps of Bali and felt defeated. By 9pm I was really mad at myself for not being able to stick with it but then I remembered something. In the past I wanted to taper anyway and by 9pm I had shaven off two thirds of my usual dose and I was ok, just some RLS, and anxiety but nothing compared to what I felt the last time I went CT. I was actually making it. That night I didn’t get that much sleep but Saturday again was tolerable. Now it’s Sunday and I feel so much better. Sticking with the exact dose I started with on Friday. I saw another post on another forum and someone made a really good point. Compare how much you take daily to a flight of stairs. If you don’t take that much and it’s not extract maybe it’s ok to jump to the bottom. But if it’s a high dose wouldn’t you rather step down to the bottom? I have also seen other taper schedules people are trying to attempt and it seems to be to fast. My opinion is it could take weeks not days. I think I am going to keep at this dose for about 7 days then come down slightly for another 7 days and so on. I think kratom is a God send for some. People with chronic pain, or trying to come off heavy drugs but for me, I don’t want to be responsible for ruining something good for the few who don’t abuse it. And as I write this I still can’t get over how good I feel at the moment. Everybody take care and good luck. I will come back in a few weeks and let you know the outcome.

1:18 pm September 26th, 2012

Today is day 2 I find my self very tired it’s more of a weak no will to do anything…I had my wife take the last of my kratom out of the house today so now I have this overwhelming feeling that well this may sound funny but as if I lost my best friend.. Last night I tossed and turned real restless and my knees are very achy is this all normal..I also have moments of cold sweats and periods of being really hot I hope I can get through this…I just felt so wonderful on this stuff….

3:47 pm September 27th, 2012

Ok today is day 3 feeling a little tired have a little pain in my knees still..I should give a little back ground… I’m a 33 year old male been using kratom for almost a year..I would take around 10 grams of GVB 2 times a day once in the morning and once around 12ish most of the time…Every once in awhile I would take it a 3rd time around 6 to 7 p.m. why who knows maybe just enjoyed it..
Ok last night was ruff that RLS sucks worst pain in the A@# ever..It just kept me tossing and turning real irritating but some how I manged and fail a sleep “”THANK GOD””…I know I’m all over the place with this post but please just bear with me…Most of day 2 I found myself well feeling sorry for myself would walk out of one room and then find myself crying in the next room the emotional hold this stuff has on me is crazy crying “”COME ON”” I’m a 33 year old cry baby just felt a great deal of sadness most of the day..
Today I will try and keep notes maybe it will help me in some way..I’m just not willing to become a slave to this plant and YES I will “BEAT”” this!!!!

12:12 pm September 28th, 2012

It’s been almost four months since my last post. I’ve successfully stayed away from Kratom since then. I rarely think about it anymore but sometimes it sneaks into my thoughts. I’ve realized that I can’t place that order again or the cycle will repeat. I’m getting too old to go through that again. Understand that what I’m about to say was my experience and I’m not passing judgement on anyone or attempting to minimize what anyone is going through. I went through opiate withdrawal years ago and for me it was a short and violent event. I just kept thinking “I hope I get through this alive”. I couldn’t even leave the bathroom for a few days. Kratom, again for me, is a lot more like quitting nicotine. You have to be in it for the long haul. After a month I was wondering “why do I still feel so awful?”. When I quit smoking I remember having no energy, a crushing sadness, restless leg, lack of concentration, muscle cramps, etc. I also remember these symptoms lasting a long time. Similar to what I experienced with Kratom withdrawal. Granted, I used to smoke a lot.

For those of you who are struggling. Give it time. It’ll get better. “B.J.” commented that it’s like losing a best friend. This is exactly how I felt. A friend who was always there, a friend who would always listen, a friend that help me feel at peace. However, it’s also a very jealous friend that demanded my full attention, took away my time, my ambition, my money, and in some cases my real friends. With friends like that ….

I do want to make one thing clear. I don’t think Kratom should be scheduled in any way shape or form. Plants, in their raw form, should not be illegal IMHO.

4:35 pm October 1st, 2012

Before anything I would like to thank the person responsible for this blog,, that said THANK YOU.. This blog was looked at and read daily through out the whole W/D’s.. I know in some way I think I feel as good or better today.. Kratom may have just been that bump in the rode short term W/D’s for sure..They where no fun what so ever but very doable.. The good side have no longer the want to drink for that I thank the use of kratom in some sort of blindsided way…Any way thought I would post one more time and be on my way… Thanks to all…

12:14 pm October 3rd, 2012

wow..I feel like such a drug addict. Everyone who started with painkillers started because they actually needed it for some kind of pain. I just started popping perks and vics back in 2010 because I got bored of weed, and started experimenting with all kinds of stuff. Most of all I became fond of the painkillers they put me just in the state of relax i wanted to be. My addiction never became too bad I wouldn’t say, probably mostly phycological most of the withdrawals were with minor heat sweating. I quit for a small window this year for probably only about 2 months tops, only because I couldn’t get them for a while. But I feel like I was slowly but surely starting to come back around to terms with life without drugs (just fresh air and weed). But then, out of nowhere, I got a text, from a less frequented connect who said “percs on deck”. Boy was I excited to get my buzz back on again. My weed just wasn’t the same without it. I loved just throwing back 2-3 percs and just smoking a nice fat one. I would aspire to do that every day and just sit in my room and play video games. Sad? Yes. But fun, Yes. Extremely. But believe me I realized the problem. And recently, my dealer said she wont be good again for a few weeks. So what did I do in fear of my first real opiate withdrawal after consuming them like crazy for a few straight months? I went to for to read something that might help. This was 2 days ago only. I then stumbled upon knowledge of this Kratom and began reading & researching it. At first, it sounded too good to be true, like the drug from that movie Limitless, nzt or something. Only from what I read, it didnt seem to be addictive and sounded like it existed only to re-track your life and do something positive. I then started to convince myself it was what I needed, I wasn’t even really trying to read anything bad on it, I couldn’t even really find much bad on it. Just positive feedback for the most part from A LOT of websites. So, I rushed to the headshop the next day as soon as they opened, I was practically camped outside of there like I was waiting for the Iphone 5 or something, lol. I bought a $30 sack of the Bali. 25 capsules. I said, “Ok” and I went hope and tossed back 2 of those bad boys. Didn’t really feel much that day, but I wasn’t trying to overdue it. I was already planning on rationing them out for a period of time. Even said, I felt pretty good, slightly mellow euphoria I suppose. I could barely go to sleep though. Finally, I did. This was yesterday by the way. Earlier today I was feeling kind of irritable and I didn’t know why but I also felt like crying when I saw something sad on TV about neglected dogs, lol. Thats kind of unlike me, I mean, I like dogs, but I am usually able to control my emotions better than that. I never really feel like crying. The thought arose in the back of my mind that there is no possible way these symptoms aren’t attributed to the K. But the other side of my mind was playing a great lawyer. I was just hoping it wasn’t true. But I also had (have) an extremely stuffy nose and a on-off mild headache. So I took back 2 more capsules and the pain went right away…for maybe 2-3 hours or so. The mild headache came right back. I said “am I gonna have to deal with this every time?”. I was content though. Then I made it through most of the day just chillen, but a few hours ago I had the sudden urge to just get stupid high and popped like 4 at once. I was feelin nice. But I was like damn, its gonna be hard to ration these, they’re so addicting. But I was havin a good time. Although something told me to get online and read more about them because I suspected something was wrong with my plan. And I stumbled here what do you know, I was right. The haven of all the stories the other sites dont want you to know. I now know that I am going to be in over my head trying to live with these. Although I feel GREAT, I know everything must come to an end so I’m not gonna prolonge it any longer. After I’m done typing this up I’m gonna pop the rest of these K pills remaining. I can’t sleep, and all I can think about is more K. Looks like about 15 of these badboys in here. I’ll get through as many as I can then throw the rest out if anything. I don’t know what I’m gonna do for the comedown, but I’m sure I’ve handled worse with cocaine even on a light day so I’m not sweating it too much. Just the stuffy nose thing and the headache thing is kind of hard to bear. But if those symptoms are just gonna get worse.

5:29 pm October 5th, 2012

Mike I’m not to sure the Kratom has to much to do with what your going through.. You mentioned you have only been doing them for a very little time.. You may just have a cold or something along them lines… Now I’m not saying keep doing the kratom I just don’t think thats reason your feeling the way you are… I was taking kratom for well over a year around 30 grams a day.. This stuff could be good every once in awhile for the need to kill pain,, but do not do this every day it will become you… Good luck Mike if you need anything just ask…

8:22 pm October 8th, 2012

I checked in a while back to see how everyone was doing. Especially the ones who have quit. For some reason my comment wasn’t posted so I will try again with an update. A little background I had been using everyday for about two years now. Sometimes it would be just Bali, other times I would use extract. I have to admit, while using Bali I felt much better and didn’t have the horrible withdrawals in the morning. Well one week it was taking less time to get to the withdrawal stage so I decided to quit. By 9am on the first day after a week of extract I conceded and had 6 gel caps of Bali. By 9pm I took another 6 to try and sleep only to realize I had stumbled on a taper method. So that first day I took 6 gel caps 5 times a day with one having to be at 3am to continue to sleep. I did this over a weekend to make sure I was going to be ok for work the following week. I have been very reluctant to quit because the last time the depression was so bad I couldn’t even get out of bed. Also the anxiety, it felt like someone was always standing on my chest, all the time. After two weeks of this I went back so I could function in this world. Sad isn’t it. So here is my opinion and taper schedule. I am down to my last days and it has been very easy to get through it without the depression and very minimal anxiety. I know everyone is different and what works for one might not work for another but from the comments we are all in the same boat. Also, we have all come to realize this is a powerful thing and going cold turkey might not be in the best interest of us. I have seen many taper schedules online and so many seem way to short with some lasting only a week. That’s not enough time. Also I believe the gel caps is the best way to measure the taper.

Day 1-3: 6 gel caps (toss and wash method) 5 times daily taking my last dose right before bed then another at 3am.
Day 4-6: 6 gel caps three times a day.
Day 7-9: 5 gel caps three times a day.
Day 10-12: 4 gel caps three times a day.
Day 13-15: 3 gel caps three times a day.
Day 16-18: 2 gel caps three times a day.
Day 19-21: 1 gel cap three times a day.
Day 22-24: 1 gel cap two times a day.
Day 25-27: 1 gel cap one times a day.
Then for a week take one gel cap every other day. Honestly I think by the time you are taking 2 gel caps three times a day you really aren’t doing anything anymore or so it seems. But I will tell you this. With this method I was able to function, work, meet with friends. Before, my depression was so bad I knew I couldn’t go that route again. One thing you need to keep in mind is this method takes a lot of self discipline. I didn’t think I had it in me but I was surprised. I never once had a “treat” for doing a good job. I always kept to the schedule. Another thing that you have to come to grips with is that all you are doing is taking enough to make you feel human and that’s it. To keep the withdrawal symptoms at a minimum. You will never feel the euphoric high using this method so don’t try and chase it. One thing that you could reward yourself with is a shell of kava. Also I have seen on other threads about Phenibut working for some of the withdrawal symptoms. Stay away from that at all costs. I don’t have the personal experience but from what I read you body becomes addicted extremely fast and the withdrawals are worse than kratom. Honestly for me the first day was the worst but by the evening I felt almost human. By day three I felt completely human and I could work. The first two weeks the only symptoms I got were by the early afternoon my joints would hurt and I felt a little anxious. But that would usually only last for a couple of hours. Never ever ever, did I experience the debilitating depression that caused me to go back. Maybe a little sensitive to things that I was never before like a sad part in a movie. Gel Caps in my opinion are the best way to taper because you can accurately measure your doses. I would recommend going on the Internet and just googling who has the best caps right now. I know I know you’re trying to quit and I am telling you to get more kratom. I just think that it does a little more to the brain then we realize and you need to come down SLOWLY. So now I am at the 1 gel cap three times a day stage and really all symptoms are now gone. I will be finished here soon then I can say I got off kratom on my own without help and from reading your threads I know you can do it to. It’s ok to get a little help in the first few days with a benzo but keep it to just a few days and only when absolutely necessary. Good luck everyone if you have any questions feel free to reply.

9:46 pm October 8th, 2012

One last point about the taper. The first day I started every morning I took a super complex vitamin B that also had C. I immediately noticed that my energy was now coming from the vitamins rather than from the kratom which was a great feeling. Like clock work I eat some fruit with a sports drink in the morning with a nice B Complex. I think this is very important to start repairing the damage. Thanks and good luck again.

6:15 am October 10th, 2012

I have been addicted to benzos and opiates and then to only kratom for a total of about 4 years. I need advice and help. I have tried having my parents ration small doses daily like methadone or suboxone sort of treatments to me but my compulsive behaviors always lead me back to kratom becoming a detrimental habit to my well being. I feel stuck and really really want to quit this awful substance. I can’t really afford rehab or just drop everything I am doing- full time work and school- and go off to rehab. Does anyone have any advice for me? I don’t know where to turn.

6:18 am October 10th, 2012

I am 23 years old and accept full responsibility for my habit. I just dont know what to do next. I have never quit or tried to quit anything under a doctor’s supervision. Do many doctors even know about kratom or how it affects the brain and body?

2:04 am October 11th, 2012

Robby you should consider taping down on plain leaf as low as you can. Then your just going to have to deal with the withdrawals. There’s no magic way out. Start exercising and eating healthy will help.

6:27 pm October 11th, 2012

I just recently realized “what” I was going thru. By this, I mean: A sudden inability to sleep more than 30 mins every 12 hrs, a runny nose, general cold/flu symptoms, and an UTTER SENSE OF DREAD AND MISERY. My girlfriend figured this out for me….I was going thru withdrawals from KRATOM!!
My first thought was: Im not addicted to anything!! NOT ME!! Well, I was sorely mistaken. I have been drinking KRATOM for over a year for a joint disorder. It worked perfectly. I thought I had found a safe “homeopathic” cure for pain I began having in my joints when I turned 43 yrs old. Somehow, I never managed to go without it, as I ALWAYS ordered a week before I was out.
Well, I have finally realized what a hold this stuff had on me. I have maxxed out 2 credit cards by ordering $180.00 of the stuff approx every 2- 1/2-3 weeks for the last year or more. Once, I tried to order my “medicine” and my card was declined. I figured it was no real problem…..UNTIL, the 2nd day I hadn’t taken my daily “dose”.
Dear God…I have never felt such an overwhelming sense of crippling DREAD. I was absolutely miserable. I had to actually leave work after only an hour. I thought I was going to go insane before I could GET AWAY from anyone and everyone. I felt anxious, guilty, and could not keep from thinking about only the NEGATIVE things going on in my life: Bills, my car not passing emissions, etc. Things I would never give a second thought to, absolutely CRUSHED and seemed to BRUISE MY SOUL. I originally thought I had developed a cold or the flu, as I had legitimate symptoms (runny nose, aches in joints/bones). Then the sleeplessness began. Possibly the worst experience of my life. I began to freeze and stay cold no matter the temperature. Night sweats kept my pillow and sheets wet. I literally got maybe 30 mins of sleep a day before “jerking” awake….Like having a dream of falling off of a cliff, then hitting the ground JERKS YOU AWAKE. For me, this lasted a little more than 2 weeks. Fortunately, I haven’t had any issues with restless leg syndrome…and thankfully so. I truly don’t think I could handle more than what KRATOM has already unleashed on me.
Today is WEEK 3 since my last “dose”. And I will be blunt as I can….If I were a suicidal thinking person, I could probably tell you what my GLOCK tastes like. Mentally, I am a “cup is half-full” kinda guy, but these last 3 weeks have been BRUTAL on my nerves, sense of well being, and personality. My girlfriend is the ONLY person that knows what I am going thru, and I thank her for researching this issue for me (thank you, BeBe). My friends and co-workers have all reacted suspiciously of my behavior and attitude.
I had maxxed out 2 credit cards, become physically and mentally DEPENDANT on something I thought was a simple HERBAL REMEDY, alienated and worried my friends, and SUFFERED beyond the point I thought I could possibly endure. I am still having strong issues with not sleeping more than 2 hrs a day, but it is SLOWLY getting better. I am no stranger to pain and suffering. I was diagnosed w/Kidney Cancer in ’10 and thought I had met my match in reference to pain and sheer misery. However, I have to admit that these past few weeks have taught me how wrong I was.
I finally feel CONFIDENT enough to speak out about this and KRATOM’s DANGEROUS physical/psychological effects. To ANYONE out there who has tried KRATOM and intends to continue, QUIT NOW! To those out there who have decided not to be a slave to this stuff, be brave and vigilant….it will pass. I am 44yrs old and have never taken and been addicted to anything in my life. It was an absolute and total shock to my system that I was going through WITHDRAWALS. I am absolutely convinced and can honestly say that I HAVE QUIT KRATOM. I haven’t stopped….I have QUIT. I “quit” smoking on a daily basis, but I occasionally bum one when I have a drink or two…so, I havent truly QUIT…I only stopped for a while. But in this case, I have decided to take back control of my finances and my LIFE. But, I will not lie to myself or to whomever reads this……

At least once a day, KRATOM still calls my name….

5:22 pm October 12th, 2012

Hi my name is Bill. I was addicted to 800mg’s of oxycontin per day. I took 5 80’s in the morning and 5 80’s in the afternoon. It was ruining my life and I had no way to get help, I didn’t want to turn to suboxone or methadone because they are often times even harder to get off then oxycontin.

That is when I found kratom. I took kratom for a couple of months and one day I felt like I didn’t even need it anymore. It helped me transition back to normal. Everyone that is having so many problems with it I have a word of advice, dont blame it for your own actions. Kratom is addictive and you should not take it everyday. That’s irresponsibility on your part.

For people addicted to opiates it has been a miracle in moderation to transition back to being sober. Just dont take it everyday for crying out loud.

If you really want to quit kratom i’ll tell you how to do it right now. Just stop taking it and get some sleeping pills from the Dr. or other meds. You will actually feel a lot better being off kratom. It may seem difficult, but that’s just because you keep giving in and taking more. The solution is %100 absence.

I want to say this to everyone out there. Things do get better and it is possible to quit kratom or whatever drug your using! It just takes time and a lot of hard work.

11:03 pm October 13th, 2012

One thing I have to say is we all have to be very careful how we make our decisions and how we live with them. All I did was offer advice on a taper but certain other things I said I regret. I don’t want to add any fuel to the fire to ever have this scheduled. I know I wouldn’t have my family or my career right now because nothing else worked. But now I just feel its time to move on. I don’t regret anything. From the posts I have read a lot of us don’t even know the hell it is to be physically addicted to heroin or alcohol. Can you imagine being addicted to something that has withdrawals that can kill you? Yet there are bars within walking distance of most people. I’m not taking away anything from the experience here. It sucks. But let’s remember it has saved lives. I think what we should do here is talk people through the process. But at the same time we should never demonize it.

8:24 pm October 14th, 2012

I am 52 and have been on oxycontin 40 mg twice a day for years and when my husband retired I could not afford them and he made to much money for assistance so I stopped , quit taking them . I have had 4 back surgeries and still in pain but could not afford meds had to give up insurance could not afford it. It has been 6 long days and it is HELL but I am doing it and will never go back I just hope it gets better . Would not recommend cold turkey but can’t afford more pills to get off pills . It tough but I am strong , it WILL NOT WHIP MY BUTT !!!!!

1:51 pm October 23rd, 2012

This is my first time here, and I just finished reading the entire thread. I have been using Kratom to get over a more serious opiate dependency. About 3 years ago I started taking Oxycodone and before long I was up to 300mg of OC a day. After 1.5 years of using OC I decided I needed help to kick it. I found a local Methadone clinic where I went daily for 6 months to get my 85mgs of Methadone. After those 6 months my insurance stopped covering my meds and I had to quit cold turkey (or so I thought). The methadone WD’s hit me after 5 days without it due to it’s extremely long half life. By the 3rd day of the WD’s I was writhing in pain, my body locked up, I couldn’t even keep down water. The absolute worse WD’s I have ever experienced in my life. I was so dehydrated I wound up passing out in front of my girlfriend and not knowing what to do she called the ambulance. The doctor at the ER was not very helpful at all, but before he kicked me out I asked him for a Rx for Suboxone. I have been taking 8mgs of Suboxone a day for the last year now. About 2 weeks ago I was looking up remedies for WD and came across Kratom. I stopped taking Suboxone, and I have been using 10-20 grams a day for the last 9 days to combat the Suboxone WD. I haven’t had any symptoms of WD from the Suboxone, but now I’m ready to stop taking Kratom before that becomes a problem for me. My question is, how bad can I expect the Kratom WD’s to be? Since I’ve been using opiates for 3 years, will that increase the length/intensity of the Kratom WD? I am taking my last dose of Kratom in about 3-4 hrs and any insight into what to expect would be appreciated.

3:27 pm October 26th, 2012

This thread is giving a completely wrong image of what Kratom is. I would say that there is a 1% of kratom users that become addicted to this plant and seems to be that this thread only shows reports from this small percentage of users. As a consequence, the readers are receiving misleading info on this plant and may have the impression that Kratom is a devil capable of destroying their lifes.

Most of these people have heavily abused this herb. I cannot believe how it is possible to consume high doses of extracts or 100 daily grams while 3 grams can be considered a single dose.
This clearly demonstrates that these guys are unable to control their life and blames kratom for this, while them are the only ones responsible.
After years of such abuses they must consider itself lucky if the only consequences are one sleepless night and a few days of minor pains when they quits the habit.
Me, all of my friends and the 99% of kratom users never had to deal with addiction or withdrawals, even after years of use. There are no special secrets, just common sense and nothing more.
This plant is a gift of god and is helping lot of person with their pains and anxiety. It also helps people to free from REAL addictions and I’m not talking of a few kids crying because they can’t sleep one night!

If you guys can’t control yourself to the point of eating 100 grams of Kratom daily, you’re having the same behaviour of a children that thinks he had eaten an innocuous bag of sugar. With kratom you’re lucky enough to only experience a few days of minor pains as side effects, with other substances (included the ones that people think are safe!), you constantly are at risk of kill yourself.

I recommend users to visit KratomAssociation in order to know well what Kratom is and to not get influenced from report of users that have heavily abused of this plant at crazy levels.

1:27 am October 29th, 2012

I am really glad to see a lot of defense in support of Kratom on here, the withdrawals can be frightening for someone going cold turkey who has never experienced them, I have yet to hear a previous heroin addict such as myself describe them as terrible. Kratom is a very nice legal option to have for those who are in pain and don’t have access to insurance/pain clinics and the medications they treat it with are much, much worse. But don’t go into this ignorant of that it is a weak opiate (partial agonist/antagonist actually). It wouldn’t be a bad idea to always have enough around for a taper.

Steve: It’s been 5 days so I’m really curious as to how your thing turned out. If you’re still taking It is my experience and my friends experience that it is much, much less than a Suboxone withdrawal, but it is still an opiate withdrawal. At 10-20 g’s a day for 9-14 days even if you have been using opiates for several years I think you’ll be rather mild, I have helped some of my friends get off of Suboxone with Kratom without too bad of side effects. I always recommend a taper with Kratom as it seems to be relatively easy to do compared to other more reinforcing opiates. In your case do a relatively quick one and stick to it. But, plan for some dysphoria and mild physical effects.

1:57 am November 1st, 2012

Steve your probably going to have a more severe withdrawal because you were just on suboxone. Suboxone PAWS (Post acute withdrawals) can go on for a few months after you stop. The key to recovery is to taper as low as possible, then once you stop stick with it and tough out the withdrawals. It will seem like there going on forever, then one day you will wake up and feel better.

Someone posted a really good kratom taper. Use gel caps and taper over the course of a month, once you feel stable on a dose taper lower. Until you get to the point where your skipping days and taking micro doses that you dont even notice. Then you’ll almost be out of the woods.

5:02 pm November 2nd, 2012

I am in a sober house i wwas clean for 15 months i was addicted to every drug when i was using a true garbage head but opiates was one of them and i was physically hooked i relapsed with kratom even though i havent had a drink or any other drug i know its a relapsse because ive been taking kratom everyday for 3 weeks and im starting get tolerance so i decided im gonna stop today will i get any physical withdrawals after 3 weeks of daily use??

11:18 pm November 2nd, 2012

I’d read this page a number of times as I’d been contemplating jumping off of kratom, for probably about 6 months now. I’ve been addicted for almost two years. I remember when the new year came and went at the beginning of the year and thinking “I can’t believe I’ve been living my life around a drug for over a year.” As I was closing in on two straight years of my life being planned around dosing, it’s been weighing more and more on my mind.

I’d started right out of the gate with enhanced bali and that comprised my usage for almost a year and a half. As I’m sure most kratom users know, enhanced products from most vendors seemed to dry up during the summer and so I switched over to plain leaf. For that, I’m grateful.

I actually owe it to my regular vendor dropping credit card processing and hurricane Sandy both delaying my next shipment to the point that I enforced a taper, and not even a drastic one at that. I was at my worst doing probably 8 teaspoons of plain bali leaf a day, spaced out two or three times. I immediately jumped down to 4 teaspoons, every 12 hours.

After 4 or 5 days of this I decided I’d rather ride out at least a bit of it before work resumed (my employer shut down anticipating a direct hit from Sandy) and around midnight Monday/Tuesday I took my last dose.

Another factor is that my grandfather, who’s always been a big part of my life, was in the hospital and it was going poorly. I knew the worst was coming and felt in a way I owed it to him to feel it for real.

I’m closing in on 96 hours after my last dose. I developed some transitory chest pain on day 3 that has become more constant, I’m assuming due to elevated blood pressure, but I feel like my inability to stay warm has subsided. Days 2 and 3 I took frequent hot showers and typically wrapped up in 3 shirts and a hoodie, even “slept” fully clothed in them (sleep of course comes rarely and fitfully).

I’ve attempted to allow myself some sleep with valerian root/5htp/melatonin and also Phenibut, which I’ve only used two of the last 4 days as I’ve read this has addiction potential itself and I don’t want to prolong the symptoms if possible. Phenibut has succeeded in putting my down for an hour or two both times I used it.

I’m curious to see how sleep tonight goes as I’ll cross the 96 hour threshold at midnight and the body temperature regulation is feeling somewhat more normal, but still definitely in the grip of withdrawal. I’ve found the posts from Justin back from March and April to be quite helpful in helping me keep a positive outlook and understand that even a long term user like myself can come out of this ok, and it’s also been a reality check in reminding me that I may only be half way through this. Still, I’m so far in now that I feel committed.I feel like I’ve got a lot of this behind me.

max powers
10:04 am November 3rd, 2012

lately i’ve been seeing articles about how dangerous kratom is and how horrible the withdrawal is. i’m assuming the ones who say it’s as bad as oxy or heroin withdrawal were taking UEI and lots of it. i’ve never messed with the extracts (except for the first 2 days of quitting heroin) because i never took kratom to get ‘high’ but if it weren’t for bali kratom i’d probably still be doing heroin or on methodone, when used properly kratom can be a life saver. i was taking about 25-30 grams of bali kratom a day after quitting heroin earlier this year and over the last two weeks i have cut way down taking less and less a day. it’s been about 25 hours since my last dose and i don’t feel great but i really don’t feel that bad…kind of cold, yawning and tearing and lacking energy but it’s a walk in the park compared to withdrawing from heroin.

11:23 pm November 7th, 2012

I’m closing in on the end of day 9 and am still in mild withdrawal. The chills ceased suddenly and unexpectedly on day 7. I still have to sneeze often, but the most persistent symptom has been the RLS, and also the most worrisome to me, as I’ve heard horror stories of it going on indefinitely (even here on this blog is a guy saying he’s a month and a half out and still has RLS). I’ll also clarify that in my first post here I said I’d tapered to 4 teaspoons twice a day, I meant total, so 2 twice a day. 4 twice a day isn’t much of a taper.

I went to my general practitioner on day 6 and explained my situation and was basically sent out with a pat on the head and “that’s cute, but REAL withdrawal only last 3 or 4 days, you’re upset about your grandfather’s death, here’s an anti-depressant.”

If you need help sleeping and you don’t have a good personal relationship with your doctor, you’d probably be best served just going through the motions and making up some bullshit. I was prescribed amitriptyline which magnified my RLS by many magnitudes and made me a fucking ZOMBIE the next day, worse than just insomnia. I’ve had an understanding family member share their ambien script with me, which I’ve alternated two days one, one day off with Phenibut/5HTP for sleep.

I’ve gone through opiate withdrawal before and it sucked, but it DID terminate after less than a week. Kratom was both much more intense and lasts so much longer it’s ridiculous.

Robert F.
1:12 am November 9th, 2012

The 50X extract that I have been using is indeed very potent. Three or four of those capsules from my vendor produces a kratom effect of about the same strength of using a strong dose of oxy from my experience. Not as euphoric but definately strong. Of course its probably not as detrimental to your health, and probably easier to quit but i would strongly recommend staying away from potent extracts. That is when I felt like I was fully physically hooked on the stuff. Taking up to six 50X capsules a day. My withdrawl symptoms from that included vomiting, other flu like symptoms, worsened depression and anxiety, and minor twitches in my eyes and shoulders (that could be attributed to small amounts of sleep though).

Robert F.
1:14 am November 9th, 2012

I do however strongly support the use of kratom to wean off of stronger pharmaceutical opiates and heroin. Much better route than taking suboxone or methadone.

todd wat
6:09 am November 9th, 2012

Finally have the strength and energy to post to this blog’s comment roll.

Kratom addiction is very very serious. I was a user of about 28 grams a day of Bali “powder” for about a year. A serious stomach virus made it so that I could no longer processes the tea through my system so that basically forced me to quit taking it.

I am thankful that I had a reason to stop. I was sick and tired of taking that forsaken drug every single day of my life. I am so glad to not wake up every morning and pump and dump that nasty nasty Kratom. Today is the 5th day without a drop of Kratom in my system and I SORT of have some energy back. Its still pretty terrible, but I do infact feel human again… I can feel my old self emerging again and I am so so very thankful.

Days 1-5 are a bitch. I dont know how else to say it, but they do get better. You won’t sleep. You will be restless. Take hot baths, try and get some Ativan, or Klonopin, tough it out. Tough it out.

I broke into tears every single day, multiple times a day. I am still breaking into tears. Its a hard feeling to articulate, but I’m talking intense sobbing, intense emotions.

I also had a very very intense feeling of being “alone”. Try and be around someone, or keep a friend on the phone.

Be prepared for VERY little energy. I’m talking like low blood sugar but WAY worse. You won’t even be able to tie your shoe laces. Its really incredible how tired you’ll be. By days 4-5 you’ll have decet amounts of energy.

Hang in there. Please everyone reading this, BE CAREFUL WITH KRATOM

Steve M.
6:29 pm November 11th, 2012

Where was this information three years ago? I have a slipped disc in my neck that touches my spinal cord. Doctors put me on all kinds of stuff (some off label) for pain, headaches and lack of sleep. I didn’t like being on scripts so I searched for herbal alternatives and found Kratom. I’m a careful guy with a master’s degree in Psychology so I’m very familiar with the potential problems associated with better known products. This was several years ago, and at the time I couldn’t find any information on withdrawal or addiction. I read everything I could find on the history and use of Kratom and I decided to try it. I found that it helped with the constant pain I was in, helped me to sleep, and generally felt better. I noticed when I would run out I would start to experience what I assumed was feeling like I did before Kratom. What I now know to be the side effects of Kratom match pretty closely the problems I had before Kratom which made it hard to determine that they were side effects. Since I started Kratom I’ve tried a few other therapies that have helped (for instance a Chiropractor was able to relieve my headaches). Since I felt worse (like I used to) off Kratom I didn’t think anything else was working. I worked up to high doses (.35g of strong extract) twice daily over three years. Financially I could no longer sustain it so I stopped taking it last Thursday making this my third day off. I’m in agony suffering from most of the symptoms mentioned on this blog. I’ve barely slept for two nights. I lay there in agony with every joint and my back aching. The headaches are terrible. I’ve been in a very dark, depressed head space for the last two days. I’m exhausted, but closing my eyes doesn’t help. I’ve tried to meditate to relax and I can’t because of the constant ache. It’s like my body is in purgatory, and I know I didn’t feel this bad before Kratom so it has to be withdrawal. This is terrible, but I take solace in the other posts saying it does get better. I went cold turkey off Cymbalta, and dealt with brain zaps from that, but it was nothing compared to this. Thanks to those who’ve posted encouragement. I’ll try to respond with an update, or if I find anything that helps.

6:39 pm November 14th, 2012

Taper your kratom when you are ready to quit. I have quit kratom frequently, and have only had symptoms when I donot taper. Kratom is forgiving, do 1/2 your dose for a week. Drop again in another week. Keep some immodium and benedryl handy, it reduces some of the w/d’s.
Valium is also very helpful to have on hand.

If you are hooked on extracts, switch to regular leaf before trying to quit.


Steve M.
1:59 pm November 15th, 2012

Thanks Mark. I guess I’m an all or nothing kind of guy. Probably not smart, but I got through it. I’m sure everyone’s experience is different. For me weaning off wouldn’t work well because when I was on Kratom I didn’t see the problem with being on it. So once I took that one dose, or a half dose, and felt the effects I would start to think, “This stuff isn’t bad! What was my problem? Buy some more!” Feeling the withdrawal was good for me because it pointed out what Kratom was doing to me, and why I needed to be off of it. Taking something like Valium to help with the darkness wouldn’t be good for me either long term since I would gain an interest in it instead of Kratom since it made me feel better. Then I would be seeking it. I don’t have an addictive personality. I have real, chronic problems that I have to deal with every day. It’s a sucky way to live, and anything that makes it tolerable is a temptation.

I’m pretty much over the withdrawal now on the sixth day. On the fourth day I started to feel a brighter mood break through the clouds, but the lack of sleep was giving me a splitting migraine. On the fifth day I started to remember why I started to take Kratom in the first place. I still have physical problems like the slipped disc in my neck, bad back, extremely low Testosterone that’s very hard to control (doc doesn’t know why of course), I don’t sleep (just toss and turn all night), seasonal allergies, etc. Kratom masked all that. They’re symptoms of bigger problems that need to be addressed, and not covered up by Kratom.

Although I’m back to dealing with real problems now, I can also say that my real personality is back. It’s strange because I’ve been on Kratom so long that my real personality almost feels like a stranger, but it feels really good to be back.

Since I have other problems that probably aggravated the withdrawal (i.e. I don’t sleep well anyway) my experience will probably differ from others. I haven’t slept more than about 3.5-4 hours a night for the last five days. Started the second day off Kratom. I would imagine most people would start to be able to sleep better sooner.

Despite that here’s some things I found to help. First, stay hyper positive and get out of the house. Surround yourself with really cheerful music, get out in the sun, etc. You’re not going to feel like doing it, but do it anyway. Once you get out you’ll feel a little better. It’s like any other depression. It can start a vicious cycle. Listening to music that’s as depressed as you are, or holing up in bed or in front of a computer for days, will simply add to the problem making you more depressed. If you have a friend who knows what you’re going through have him get you out of the house. Not to a movie or other dark place. Go for a walk.

Something else that helped was a very specific wine. My wife works for a private wine shop, does wine tastings, etc. She had heard of a particular wine that worked better than just any ‘ole liqueur because of the region. Get a wine that’s a 100%, or close to it, of the Pinotage grape from the Western cape of South Africa. One example vineyard is Barista. It’s not as esoteric as it sounds. Wine grapes (or any plant) will pick up from the environment (soil and air) things that are native to a region. That’s why the same grape can taste so different between different regions. Anyway, it helped me. It didn’t work forever, but it did give me a reprieve from the splitting headache and helped my mood a little more than other wine did. I will warn you, this is a rough wine. It’s not a fun drink. But for those of us used to Kratom tea, and toss and washing Kratom powder, it’s drinkable.

Other things that helped me with my particular problems were Soma (a script muscle relaxer) for my back pain, Aleve for the joint aches, and OTC sleep meds and NyQuil to help sleep (OTC sleep meds are the same thing that’s in Benadryl which is not in NyQuil so you’re not doubling up, but read the labels to be sure).

Being on the other side now I can tell you that it does end, and it feels good. Not only having my real personality back, but also knowing I’m not spending $500+ a month on Kratom! I can save that money, or use it on other things to help the real problems.

Hang in there! Remember that anything that does this to you when you stop taking it you don’t want in your body. You’re going to be surprised how much better and clearer you feel. It’s a few days out of your life. Maybe a week. Not the eternity it feels like.


2:23 am November 20th, 2012

I am not a writer so I will get straight to it:

I started taking K on the weekends and it was great but expensive. Wanting more, I searched out a cheaper outlet to where I was taking a spoonful once a day with no adverse effects. Once again it the cost was adding up so I sourced out an even cheaper outlet. Right around that time a great relationship with a girl came to an end and to help cope I upped the dose to 1 spoon twice a day since I was getting more K for less dough. Then came 2 spoons twice a day and thats when it got me. I had heard people talking about w/d and never understood it because before this point i was BEING CAREFUL. I got reckless with it and it bit me in the ass. Here I am 3 years later on that same dose and wanting to kick it but never mustered enough ball to do it. I actually accidentally got off one time but screwed it up within days. I came down with a stomach flu one day and couldnt keep anything down so I knew I had to weather the storm. I laid in bed with terrible sweats, restlessness and extreme dehydration (and I mean extreme). To the point where I felt like I had to pee every 30 seconds but nothing would come out. Im sure my bladder looked like a vacuum seal bag at that point. 24 hours later I felt normal… and not the normal you get from dosing up after coming down. I felt human again. One who can function without an outside substance and it was a revelation. I didnt want to give up K completely though because it is still an amazing plant with many great benefits. I dosed up too much and too soon after and I was back to square one.

So here I am 3 years into use and wanting to quit. Through those years I have acquired some knowledge about the plant and its effects on the body. To make it easy I will bullet them;

-K uses your bodies water supply to activate so staying hydrated is CRUCIAL. Lack of water also leads to intestinal blockage. In order to maintain a clean bill of health, elimination is very important. Lots of water usually helps me combat w/d. That weak feeble feeling you get when coming down is from dehydration. I know because I have felt them same thing in the morning and since I started putting down 8-12 ounces of water before bed has killed that stone dead. Lack of water will cause headaches, achy bones and joint and intestinal blockage. This is EXTREMELY important. Drink more water!!! I can not stress it enough.

-Magnesium is a mineral that helps lower tolerance and increase potency. Raw cacao is extremely high in this mineral which also happens to affect the same receptors in your brain that is responsible for “love”. Other foods a high in it are starfruit and spinach.

-Tumeric is an herb that also increases potency. I saw it mentioned on a forum a while back and have forgotten the specifics of it. Im not sure what else it is good for but I take 3 capsules a day that I make myself because it also fights cancer better than chemo.

– I have noticed that weed is a good way to combat w/d. This varies from person to person because of preference. I do not drink since it is way more detrimental to your health so my preference is a green flower. It lowers w/d and lengthens the time frame in which w/d occur for me.

– Spicy foods such as Thai and Indian increase potency as well. This is not meant to encourage you to keep dosing and eat these foods. I say it so you can taper down with less K and still feel a slice of normalcy. Which leads me to my next point…

– I think tapering down is the best method. Cold turkey is hell and you have to plan out a week alone with no work or social life in order to deal with it without others seeing you as a junkie. If you are committed to quitting, you have to devise a schedule and measure out every dose consistently and stick with it. It comes down to: do you want full fledged hell slammed on you at once in intolerable doses or would you rather have moderate jabs be taken that isnt noticeable by anyone who hasnt been clued in?

– I also highly suggest to stay away from Rx’s. I am completely against that industry entirely since they are only concerned with creating customers and not cures. The industry survives on people staying sick. Thats a whole other can of worms though. The Rx industry also synthetically creates in a lab what already exists in nature since the law states that nature can not be patented, which equals no money for big pharma (also why weed is illegal). I suspect that Kratom is the plant that they based Oxy on which I why so many people find refuge in this plant.

– As with any ailment I believe that diet and exercise can fix almost anything. I have personally found that exercise has helped increase potency and decrease w/d symptoms. The body has immense abilities to heal itself and if it is running at optimal performance then that is even better for all aspects of your life. I try to eat right- organically and raw as much as possible and currently cutting out meat-, I do yoga and ride my bike. Combined they have done pretty well in more than one areas of my life.

Kratom is not a bad plant. I love it. It has helped me in more ways than you can imagine. It is my fault that I am where I am. Its not the plants fault. Anything can be addictive. There are people that cant stop shopping. Should we outlaw shopping? Probably not. In the end, it is the user. Caffeine is actually extremely addictive and its withdraws can KILL you. Moderation and awareness is key. Too much of a good thing is never a good thing. In the beginning I was taking it daily with no problems and occasionally I would take a day off just to lower my tolerance and the next day would be even better since less powder went further. I am just tired of being prisoner to planning out every move and making sure I have a little sack or some pills with me everywhere I go.

I planned to keep it short but there is a lot to say since it is a relatively unknown topic (paradox, I know). This is the first time I have opened up anywhere on the topic so I sincerely hope that someone can find refuge in my words and use what I have learned to its full potential and get on the right track.

Good luck!

5:39 pm November 21st, 2012

I am on day 7 and I guess I’m kind of coming out of this fog……. but I’m super irritable and tired. I’ve been taking 6 of the gel caps from the local head shop for 1 year-since I quit Tramadol. This stuff is a soul stealer!

5:40 pm November 21st, 2012

Also, so glad I found this-I don’t feel so alone.

6:10 pm November 22nd, 2012

day 8-feeling worlds better than yesterday.

5:02 am November 23rd, 2012

Hello everyone, and thank you for sharing your experiences w/ kratom.
I have used kratom for 3 years on and off. I never did it more then 2 days in a row. I mainly have used Bali,,,,but have tried them all.
The reason I started kratom was to get off of tramadol,,,the tramadol helped me to get of of oxy….
If used properly, and not abused,,,,this plant is the miracle plant.
It also has diminished my desire to drink. I never had a drinking problem, but I did enjoy trying differant beers.
My back ground,,I am 53. I’m a trucker, so I cant smoke weed.
I use kratom sometimes on the weekend to help w/ pain, and to feel nice.
I was addicted very badly to benzos for about 6 years. Detoxed twice from them. Took as many as 6 xanax bars a day,,,,
The benzo wd’s were way way worse then opiaie wd.
I never abused kratom, so never had wd’s.
You have to respect this plant, and also fear it. Be smart.
Rehydration is a MAJOR factor in any recovery. And as mentioned several times before, proper nutrition and excersize,,,,, stay busy.
Volenteer,etc. Hope this helps someone.
I’m a person with a very addictive past, but I will not ever let kratom control my life like I let xanax, klonopin, and valium did….

1:13 am November 26th, 2012

I’m on day 7 off of K.

I was taking 5 pills in the am, and then another 5 around noon. I tapered down back to my 5 in the am…then 4 for a few days…then 3 for a few days…then zero.

The first day off i was very depressed…second day was better. I actually started to feel “normal” on day three.

I really do miss taking it. I’m trying to convince myself that if i can stay off for a while, then going back will not be a problem(because i know i can get off when i want) I use it for work, and it REALLY gets me thru. I encounter extremely stressful situations throughout the day, and K guides me thru:) I’m very irritable without it….SIGH…i really miss taking it. Has made me feel good knowing ive been off for a week now. I cant imagine what it must feel like to be addicted to nicotine(is this what it feels like???)

Reading everyones posts are really comforting:) Thanks to everyone!

12:24 pm November 26th, 2012

I am on day 7 off of kratom after 2 years of heavy use. I have experience with other mu opiates so I can tell you that kratom is definitely addictive, just not as severe.

Most people coming to this blog are wondering about the withdrawl symptoms… I can tell you its not as bad as you may think. Obviously the first 3 days are going to depend on how long/much you’ve used and for me that was a lot. It did suck for me. But it was manageable despite what others have indicated. Nothing like a real opiate.

By day 5-6, you will feel normal and any remaining cravings or symptoms will be purely psychological. IMHO, these will never go away in a person with an addictive type of personality. You are the one who is responsible to manage this.

It can be done. Its not that hard. Your will power is the most important factor. The question is: How badly do you want it? If you want it bad enough, you can do it.

1:29 pm November 27th, 2012

I was off for about 9 days and then I caved. As with smoking I will keep trying until I get it right ( I haven’t had a cigarette in 10 years). I think quitting smoking was easier because eventually every cigarette you smoke makes you feel awful-with Kratom you’re letting go of something that makes you feel better-it’s so hard.

3:12 am November 29th, 2012

Staying busy, and getting yourself into that ‘mindset’ that you need to quit,,,, or take a break may help.

As it has been metioned numerous times,,,
Proper rehydration, nutrition, and exercise, are the keys to feeling, and getting better.

Also supportive people who have been there and have the knowledge can be, and is a blessing.

When I was addicted to Benzos, (by FAR thecworse addiction anyone can ever experience)..
The support groups that I found online saved my life.

Kratom is a miracle plant,,, its not the plants fault that people become addicted…

Addiction lerks around every corner.

Its up to that person, and his, or her will power,,,, and the desire to better ones self.
Be strong. Keep a positive attitude.
And take it one day at a time,,,
Sometimes one hour at a time.
Rehydrate, eat proper, exercuse, and stay positive and busy.
Thats how you beat any drud addiction.
My heart goes out to those who suffer.
Each day does get better.
Just keep a smile on your face and all will be fine.

7:42 am December 2nd, 2012

Just wanted to keep with the trend and post what will likely be my last personal experience update.

I’m over a month since I dropped kratom and am pretty much baseline again. I sometimes feel RLS late at night but it’s of a minor severity that I find easy to ignore. I anticipate this will diminish completely soon given the current rate of other symptom progression.

That WD was no joke. I’ve had pneumonia before, and the fever-but-my-body-thinks-I’m-freezing sensation was the same. That lasted a full 8 days before weirdly terminating suddenly. Insomnia persisted for 14 days. Severe RLS lasted 3 weeks, along with various little reminder “hey, you’re going through withdrawal” symptoms like intermittent chills and sneezing. I experienced no psychological effects or depression but have never been prone to these so your mileage may vary.

I personally think tapers are a pipe dream. I don’t regret doing a jump off, and it’s a good reminder that I have the strength to do something like that. To each his own, but consider doing a CTRL-F on this page for “taper” and count how many people here actually did it successfully before you make a decision.

Also, if you’re considering it, don’t let the flood of dudes going “you guys are pathetic, kratom is a miracle drug, blah blah blah, I NEED it in my life (because I’m a fucking addict)” sway your thinking one way or the other. There are obviously a lot of addicts here who are afraid of seeing their pet CNS depressant scheduled, and that they would actually deign to scorn or attempt to persuade others is frankly pathetic. It was said here once before: you people are not on the level. Kratom is an opioid. There is nothing special about it that makes it “less addictive”, or some magic no-withdrawal wonder-herb.

7:04 pm December 3rd, 2012

I’d just like to say that seeing all of comments here, and seeing how closely everyone’s experiences sounded to my own, convinced me to get serious about this. I’ve spent most of the last two years clinging to this stuff, and today marks day three since cutting myself loose.

I didn’t think this could possibly be, but today I’m actually starting to feel myself again, and I’m looking forward to celebrating my little sister’s birthday without needing to bring any with me or sneak off to slurp down any disgusting slop tonight.

I should add that I’ve tried stopping a few times, but I always left myself with too many safety nets and emergency supplies. I think it took reading these experiences and a long look in the mirror to finally do this.

Thanks everyone.

5:39 pm December 4th, 2012

I kow-it’s funny how you lose sight of who you really are-and then, begin to actually notice stuff again.Way to go!!

Geoff Cabot
5:14 am December 5th, 2012

I became interested in Kratom after accidentally stumbling on an article about it on a news website that claimed that Kratom was the new “bath salts”. I remember reading about bath salts and seeing news reports about it on TV, and all of the harmful effects that it would have on a person so, of course, just out of curiosity I wanted to know what this Kratom was all about. After reading some articles about it, Kratom looked like a safe, natural plant that if used in moderation, could help people who were suffering from mild anxiety, depression, and physical pain.

Then I stumbled on this article and began reading the comments from people who were addicted to Kratom.

I must say, for those of you commenting on here — take responsibility for the fact that the plant was not the problem; YOU are the problem. YOU have all abused the plant, taking doses that far exceeded what is normally taken. A normal dosage would be 2-3 grams (about a teaspoon and a half); everyone here was taken well in excess of 20-25 grams per day! And some of you were taking 60-100 grams per day!?! That’s insane! And then you all go to blame the drug instead of blaming yourselves?!?

Because of drug abusers like all of you and the negativity that you put on Kratom, the people who use Kratom RESPONSIBLY and ETHICALLY are therefore lumped in to the same group as all of you and are seen as drug abusers as well. Is that fair? Absolutely not. And because of all of your stupidity, this helpful drug is on the verge of being public enemy number one.

Take responsibility for what you have done. Kratom helped all of you beat your addictions to the more harmful chemical drugs (i.e. Vicodin, Heroin, etc.) that you were taking and then you all went around and senselessly abused the same drug that helped you. Shame on all of you.

Oh, and one more thing: I want everyone to know that I have never tried Kratom. I have only read about it and its benefits. The good far outweighs the bad but of course, because of the bad, everyone loses.

8:14 pm December 6th, 2012

Well here I am again W\D’S I managed to make it 7 days last time…Then I managed to talk myself in to doing it again “”WHAT””!!!!I Don’t know why but I do know I got on it AGAIN!!! I wasn’t really thinking I would post here just feel like a big let down..I’m 6 days without doing any still feel kinda lost almost like something was taken from me…The biggest bother is this total tiredness all the time will this ever end I NEED ENERGY!!!! This is it I’m done forever I keep telling myself this even the first time I gave it up …I would like to hear things like tomorrow you’ll be back to your old self… It’s been tomorrow for a few days now and I still feel like crap…I decided to try the loperamide I took 13 2mg tablets about 40 minutes ago… I have read that it helps but will report what happens…To all posters that has successfully stopped… Let me know how you feel today I want to hear it or in this case read it… I think it would help me and others kick this stuff… I want freedom… Thanks to you all love this blog…

10:55 pm December 8th, 2012

Geoff Cabot you sure are angry about something you claim to have never tried. I don’t know where you get your info but I certainly have never taken the dose you that you accuse everyone on this forum of taking. Of course we know it’s not the plant’s fault.

1:00 am December 9th, 2012

Thank you Geoff Cabot for putting that out there.
It is a FACT that the people on here are addicted to Kratom because they were abusing it. Consuming way more then is required, and using it everyday. people being irresponsible is the problem here.
NB you are apparently one of those people. blaming the plant for your choice to over use and abuse it.

Kratom is active at LOW doses, and DOES NOT HAVE TO BE USED EVERYDAY!!! using it everyday at the high doses that people have used it at is just plain ignorant. GET EDUCATED ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE PUTTING INTO YOUR BODY!!

Kratom is a MIRACLE PLANT! just do your research and read about how many opiate addicts, and alcoholics it has helped.

NB you are apparently not a very intelligent person, and because of ignorant uneducated weak addicts like you this plant will be made illegal in a matter of time.

Yes I have an addictive personality, yes I was addicted to benzos that my Dr. kept perscribing at higher doses.

But educating myself about Kratom, and realizing that it is an addictive plant. I learned to RESPECT KRATOM! and FEAR IT as well.
I have self discipline, and realize that if I use this plant, and not ABUSE it as every addict on here has,,, then I will be perfectly fine.

As I said in my first post, I have used Kratom on and off for 3 years without any problems what so ever. I have gone 2, 3 even 4 months without using it at all. Never needing it, or freaking out because I don’t have it….. Because I was smart enough NOT TO ABUSE IT.

Kratom has diminished any desire for me to drink, or take any pills.
I do have an occasional beer or two when I choose not to USE Kratom.
I have lost almost all of my body fat. I have wash board abs at the age of 53. I am in excellent health. I am not on any medication. I have perfect blood pressure. I am a professional truck driver who never, never uses Kratom on my on duty time.
An addict is an addict is an addict…. Once Kratom is illegal the addicts will find something else to abuse…

It’s time for all of you ADDICTS to take resposibility for your uneducated ignorance,,,, and quit blaming KRATOM THE MIRACLE PANT
for the decision that you have made to ABUSE this plant. USING AN AMOUNT OVER 5 grams, FOR ONE DOSE IS JUST PLAIN ADDICTIVE STUPIDITY!! kratom is active between 2 – 5 grams depending on the strain,,, 100 grams a day?… REALLY!! that is just being stupid,,,
Sorry,,,, but that’s a fact
Go ahead and flame me all you want. I am an educated healthy, adult man who takes the responsibilty for what I consume in the proper manner, in the proper doses, at the proper time.

My heart goes out to the weak, sick, uneducated, ignorant addicted people. I will keep you all in my prayers.

I can say this in closing that if Kratom was made illegal tomorrow that I would NOT be curled up on my bed in a fetus position in cold sweats.

2:08 am December 9th, 2012

NB I had to read your sarcastic post one more time to be sure I covered everything.

I am not trying to persuade anyone into using Kratom. It is their choice.

I am a believer that ALL PLANTS SHOULD BE LEGAL! and that people should be educated about these plants.

Nobody tied you down and spoon fed you Kratom. Only you can blame YOURSELF! Kratom didn’t climb in your mouth by itsself. You apparently did not read the label.

This plant has been proven by psychologist and psychotherapist to be a very helpful plant to people who use it properly and responsibly.

Lets make caffeine illegal too,,,,, Kratom is in the same family.

Do your research. Quit blaming Kratom for the choices that you, and you alone chose to do to yourself.

As Geoff Cabot mentioned above in his post. It is a FACT that the good out weights the bad when it comes to Kratom,,,,
the ones who abuse a plant that is known to be addictive is only digging their own grave.

Steve M.
1:19 pm December 10th, 2012

This post is in response to the post by Geoff Cabot. Not everyone who started taking Kratom took it to escape reality, get high, or wean off another drug. Please read all of the posts before lumping everyone here together. There are many people who deal with chronic pain from spinal injuries, fibromyalgia, MS and other neurological disorders. Living with chronic pain that never goes away whether you’re sitting, standing, working or resting will result in sleep deprivation, mood swings, inability to work due to the constant distraction, relationship problems, etc. People who deal with this for years are highly susceptible to anything that will make the pain go away. Unfortunately most things that tackle neurological pain are also addictive (including prescription medication). There is a reason for that, and that reason also responds to who is responsible for the addiction. In order to tackle neurological pain a medication (natural or otherwise) must work on the nervous system to block the sensation of pain. Since a drug (currently) can’t fix the degradation of the myelin sheath on nerves of the body, or repair a spinal injury, the only recourse in our wonderful “modern” medicine is simply to deal with the symptoms. Another drawback to modern medicine is we have yet to figure out how to target medication. So any medication, no matter how specialized in a lab, is going to be responded to by many parts of the brain. This leads us to what they do in our brain. There are several different techniques in manipulating brain chemistry to alter various aspects of the human experience (from blocking pain perception to mood or even personality alteration). Most of them break down into two general categories: Either inhibiting the uptake of a neurotransmitter, or increasing the uptake of a neurotransmitter (flooding the synapse). Pain relievers work in the former sense. They inhibit uptake of certain neurotransmitters thus slowing the response of those neurons. That’s why medication that works for anxiety also works as a pain reliever. A prime example is the FDA’s recent acceptance of Cymbalta as a pain reliever which was originally branded an anti-depressant/anxiety medication. The reason there is addiction and withdrawal to these medications is because the brain becomes accustomed to having these medications do its job for it. For instance an SSRI (Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor) binds to the uptake receptors in the axon keeping it from receiving the serotonin that’s released into the synapse. What happens when the drug is withdrawn is that inhibitor is no longer present, and the brain has to revert to a previous state of functioning. This results in sometimes terrible withdrawal symptoms (often mimicking pre-drug use state or worsened state) which drives the user to wanting more of the drug to make the symptoms go away. The user at this point is no more responsible for the addiction to Kratom than they would be to Oxycodone. It’s a physical addiction which means it’s modified the actual function of the brain. This is in contrast to behavioral addiction, such as addiction to g@mb1ing, which acts on the body’s natural responses to a situation which the person enjoys and wants repeated. One thing that both types of addiction have in common is that the person becomes accustomed to the response and begins to require a higher dose (or more risk) to maintain the same affect (positive or otherwise). That gets to the dosage point you made. Dosage will rise over time to maintain the same usefulness of the drug. This is true for long term use of prescription medication as well. The body is good at adapting, and when modifying its functionality one is fighting that adaptation. Over time dosage can get quite high. Regarding Kratom specifically (or any herbal product) dosage is extremely relative. In its natural state there is no regulation of the amount active alkaloid in the plant so some may require higher amounts to achieve the same result. There’s also extracts which attempt to isolate the active alkaloids in the plants. All extracts are different thus a different dosage would be found depending on which is being used.

Remember that most prescription medications come from observing the effects of natural herbal remedies. Valerian and valium, opium and morphine, white willow bark and Aspirin, etc. From there they begin to alter which alkaloid is focused on, and the strength of it. So they end up with Percocet as a lighter version of morphine, etc. Kratom is simply another version of Opium, or any other of a number of similar plants. It acts on the nervous system (no matter the amount taken) thus altering brain function which results in the aforementioned chemical addiction and related issues.

So your point on who’s responsible for the addiction only goes so far, and is not all inclusive. Yes, some people do have addictive personalities and simply wish to live “high” all the time to get through life. Like alcoholics, most people are not aware they have this disorder until they take their first pill after a surgery or accident (or after their first few drinks in the case of alcohol). Some suffer from depression, anxiety or other issues which leads them to seek something to make it go away without seeking professional help. Those dealing with chronic pain are typically a combination of the two. A doctor prescribes an opiate for the pain, the person sees what it’s like to live without pain, the person continues use to stay out of pain which results in the chemical addiction worsening the need for the drug. It’s a vicious cycle that feeds on itself, and is quickly taken out of the person’s full control. Like driving towards a cliff: If the person waits too long to jump out of the car they will go over whether they decide to jump out or not.

This leads to your point about Kratom being safe if used responsibly and ethically. That flat out isn’t possible because of the way the plant works. Even if only taken recreationally the person will, over time, seek a greater response to the drug. If one amount feels so good, how good would more feel? Then the chemical addiction takes hold and they begin to feel so bad without it they start taking it daily, and on it goes. It’s a very natural, albeit harmful, response that is well documented in the world of pharmacology. Frankly, people who believe they have a full grasp on what’s going on and believe they can control it are often the first people to fall off the cliff. They don’t have a full understanding of what’s actually going on in their brain with the drug. They have an ideological, high level understanding and think it will never happen to them. To those people I say never try anything. Ever. The odds are not in your favor. On a brief side note this is why opponents to legalizing marijuana call it a gateway drug. Is weed chemically addictive? Most studies have shown it is not which medically makes it safer than even Kratom. It can be behaviorally addictive in that it mellows the person out, and especially for teens going through puberty and all the crap they deal with in school, it’s very enticing. However, it’s possible for the person to travel down the logical path if weed helps this much how much more would Vicadin, Oxycodone, cocain, etc. etc. Then they wind up chemically addicted, and away they go. Does everyone who smokes weed travel that path? Absolutely not. But it’s possible. That’s why both sides can form a cogent argument.

Lastly, regarding your final statement of “The good far outweighs the bad but of course, because of the bad, everyone loses.” Based on all of the well documented, medical evidence provided in this post (feel free to research on your own on reputable sites) that statement is simply false. The same argument could be made for opium. It was used for many years as a pain reliever. It did good for those going through surgery, having a limb amputated, etc. It also led to opium dens, and a still burgeoning billion dollar drug industry.

Based on the falseness of many of the comments, the fact the poster admits he’s never taken Kratom, the needless negative and accusatory tone, and the fact that this forum is for people actually going through chemical withdrawal I recommend his post be pulled. This is a free country with freedom of speech. The poster is welcome to his opinion, but this is not the proper forum for him to use as his bully pulpit.

6:23 am December 11th, 2012

Kratom is definitly addictive, everyone here is proof of that.
Coffee is addictive too,,, should that be illegal.
Self discipline is what is lacking in ALL addicts.
As I honestly stasted several times before. I have used Kratom responsibly, with respect and fear for this plant. I NEVER! EVER USE IT MOR THEN TWO DAYS IN A ROW!!!! then I take a break for several days,, sometimes weeks,, and even months.
For 3 years,, so far,,, without any problem what so ever.
There are thousands, and thousands of people who use Kratom responsibly.
Steve you are extremely intelligent,,,, but so am I my friend.
Addiction does not discriminate,,, we all know that.
I was addicted to benzos very, very, badly,,, had to detox twice.

I wad addicted to opiates because of surgery, and the amount I was perscribed. I hate opiates,,,,I hate the dreams I had, the constipation, and the unavoidable addiction after using them for months and months.
Yes there are many people on this blog that used Kratom to help to fight cronic pain, depression, anxiety etc.
I’m sorry they are addicted.
It is not Kratoms fault though,,, and that is what rubs me wrong.

Everyone here chose to consume it everyday.

I NEVER CONSUME IT EVERYDAY!!!! 2 days a week,,, three at the most.
If I consumed it everyday,,,,I would most likely be addicted.

I deal with my cronic pain. Severe neck, and back injuries, and a wrist that had to be reattached to my arm.

The days I don’t use Kratom I take Aleve. It helps,,, but I am still in pain.
Kratom helps alleviate my pain for those 2 days in a row thatI use it,,, and keeps helping the third day when I don’t use it….If I choose to use it a third day in 1 week,, I still take a break for a few days.
Being a trucker,,, I am discipline enough to never use it when on the clock.
Not everyone who uses this leaf from a tree is addicted.
It is a plant,,, not a chemical,,, or a plant that is made into a man made pharmacuetical,,, it is all natural.
The extracts, and tinctures should not be sold,,,, but the raw leaf should be left alone as all plants on this earth that was put here to be used as medicine properly,,, and not over used or abused.

I always use the same amount,,,never increase my dose.
It is still effective after using it responsibly for 3 years.

Discipline, self respect, respect and fear for the plant, and educating ones self is the key to NOT becoming addicted.

This plants healing properties are 3 alkaloids that exist,,, the most effective one for pain being 7 hydroxymitragynine should never be altered, or refined.

It should be used in the proper way,,taking days off at a time,,, substituting it with over the counter medication for pain,,, and deal with the pain during those days that we should not use Kratom.

If peopke would do this,,, nobody would get addicted. Unfortunatly people can’t do this.

So yes Kratom will sooner or later be illegal,,, or regulated.
Please excuse any typos, grammer, or misspelled words as there is no way to edit post here once they are submitted,,, and my Galaxy touch pad and me don’t get along.
I pray those who suffer can be healed…sorry if you think I’m an ass.
But freedom of speech,,,and freedom of all living plants should not be a crime.
This world has enough hate and discrimination as it is.
The addicts here who got addicted to Kratom because you wanted to get high,,,sorry it happen,,,but it’s your fault,,,
Those who got addicted because they used it to battle illness,,,sorry but you should have gotten educated before you jumped in with both feet…you all are in my prayers

2:36 pm December 11th, 2012

@Bill- I’m finally back, and since you are interested in my progress…. or lack thereof, I figure I’ll fill you in. Since my last post I screwed up pretty bad, and hopped back on the Suboxone because as soon as I jumped off the Kratom all of my Sub PAWS came back. So I continued on with the subs at about 2mgs 2x a day. I cut that down to 2mg 1x a day, and then down to about 1-1.5 mg a day. 8 days ago I jumped off the Subs and got some more Kratom. I’ve been using about 15 grams a day for the last 8 days. I have about 7 grams left and I really don’t want to get/use anymore Kratom. I feel like I’ve been using opiates for so long that I don’t know how to function without it. I don’t know if it’s a lack of character that I have, or what is going on. But the thought of having to go through the WD’s is terrifying to me. I’ve gone through WD’s more times than I can ever count, and each time is worse than the last. I want to be clean so bad, but it seems so far out of reach at this point. The crippling depression, body aches, and complete lack of energy seem like it’s more than I can take again. I know I’m just on here complaining and feeling sorry for myself, but that’s how I feel at this point.

12:19 am December 12th, 2012

Addiction is a disease,, addiction SUCKS!! Steve you can beat this. You have to get into a specific mind set. hydration is very, very important to flush toxins from your body. Proper nutrition. I myself use a mediteranian diet. Excersise gets your endorphines flowing, and also rids your body of toxins, Support groups help TONS.

You, and all that suffer from the DISEASE of addiction are in my prayers everyday. GOD BLESS ALL OF YOU

Steve M.
1:56 am December 12th, 2012

This is in response to Pete’s last post. I don’t think anybody here would deny that the addiction to Kratom, or anything for that matter, didn’t begin with a choice. If you read my original post here, I looked up everything I could on Kratom for a couple months before I ever bought my first leaf. At the time there was little to no information on withdrawal, addiction or the opiate like effects of Kratom. What information there was in that regard was anecdotal at best. For instance, it was mentioned that long term native users often experienced skin discoloration. That never happened to me, and probably not to anyone here. In all likelihood it was a reaction to the chlorophyll in the raw leaves they were chewing. I started taking it in good conscience not thinking it was any more physically addictive than marijuana (which most studies show is not physically addictive).

My case probably wasn’t the norm. Most people probably got into it either looking to get off an opiate, or looking for a legal alternative. In either of those cases the user had already done the damage, were already physically addicted to a foreign substance, and so were primed to over use Kratom as well.

I’m not a proponent of shirking personal responsibility. For instance, I think the lawsuits against the tobacco companies were ludicrous. They made the personal choice to go against nature and intentionally suck down smoke into their lungs. I don’t care how many cool dudes and naked girls you show doing it, I’m not going to be persuaded. That was their personal choice. The tobacco companies wouldn’t exist if there weren’t people gullible enough to get suckered into their product. Yes, there are folks out there for whom life sucks, and they seek substances to escape. They need professional help. For the vast majority of people hooked on opiates, benzos, Kratom, etc. I first place blame on the medical establishment. In a lot of cases there was an initial need for the person to be prescribed a medication for pain. Unfortunately they don’t regulate it well enough. In fact there’s very little federal regulation around the prescribing of regulated medication. Some offices require a “pain contract,” while others have no problem giving enough refills on it for 3-6 months with no contract. Most people are not aware of the power of physical addiction. They don’t realize that the side effects of stopping the medication are not their symptoms returning, but rather withdrawal which will end in time. I personally have never had a doctor talk to me about weaning off of a medication because of withdrawal. I’m not saying doctors don’t, but it doesn’t seem to be common practice. It’s typically whatever gets the patient out of the office in <15 minutes (the insurance companies are billed in 15 minute increments), and keeps the patient happy.

There are plenty of regulated and non-regulated items that are physically addictive such as caffeine, alcohol and nicotine. The reason why some are regulated more heavily than others is due to the severity of addiction and withdrawal, and the potential danger to the individual and others. Even though alcohol is heavily regulated there are still thousands of deaths due to it. Why? Because everyone is different. You might be fine, and able to control your use forever, but can you guarantee the same for the guy in the car next to you? I enjoy a drink every so often. I’m proud to say I’ve never been drunk my whole life. Does that mean I think alcohol shouldn’t be regulated because I can control it? Hell, no!! I’m more concerned about all the other dumbasses on the road. You yourself pointed out that as a truck driver you don’t drive when you’ve taken Kratom (thank you for that). How about the trucker next to you? Or the driver of the car riding your bumper? In a perfect world everything could be perfectly regulated, and every user would use responsibly. That’s not reality. A few years ago there was a guy who got into a fight at a pub in my town. The cops told the pub owner (who I know) that the guy was going around and loosening the Freon connectors on people’s home A/C systems and huffing it. That’s reality. People who are responsible, and don’t have other underlying psychological conditions, have a tendency to view regulation as the “man” harshing their mellow. If it wasn’t for regulation there would be a lot more deaths either from unintentional overdosing (hydrocodone and oxycodone contain acetaminophen which destroys their liver over time), to suicide and manslaughter.

So whether someone becomes addicted to something (Kratom or otherwise) due to their own psychological weakness, lax use by medical practitioners, or conscientious users who just go too far there does come a point where it’s a physical addiction with nasty withdrawal symptoms. However they got to that point is irrelevant to this forum. This forum is dedicated to those trying to do the right thing, on their own, and break that addiction. Nasty posts deriding them for ever having gotten to that point are not helpful. People on this forum know they’re addicted. They know it was a mistake. They know they’re suffering now for their mistake, and they’re looking for help. To do anything but applaud their choice and effort is counterproductive, and in some cases harmful, to those going through it.

So to people like Geoff and Pete I wish you well. I hope that you can continue to control either not using at all (like Geoff), or control your personal use. It’s great if you can do that. Kratom is a great medicinal plant. Please keep in mind that there are many reasons for someone to become physically addicted to a substance over a long period of time, and often with no intention of doing so. And whatever the path taken, getting off the path leads to a hard road that needs helpful companionship. Not someone jabbing them in the ribs with a stick and calling them a dumbass for going the wrong way.

5:47 pm January 2nd, 2013

I’ve been a Kratom addict for 2.5 years now and I finally found the time to quit.

I started taking Kratom because I have an addictive personality and I was drinking way too much.
It got so bad that I was getting into physical fights with my boss and I was in a constant state of anxiety and depression.
Then I discovered Kratom.

Now I’m not gonna be all too hard on this stuff because I truly believe that it saved me from alcohol destruction, but it does have it dark side.

Until 6 days ago I was taking between 25-35 grams of green malay daily, I found that it would help me control my emotions and keep me working hard, but there was just something weird about my life that I could put my finger on until a few months ago.

I find that Kratom is probably 60% good 40% bad for me at least.
The good parts everyone seems to know about, it the bad parts that people overlook probably on purpose, I know I ignored it.

I knew I was taking too much when my memory started to become really bad.
I’ve always been a reasonably intelligent person, but I seemed to be forgetting more and more things and I wasn’t able to follow conversations or instructions at work, coz I’d just forget what the boss was telling me before she’d even finished the sentence.

This was becoming quite alarming but I found that if I missed one of my between 4-5 doses per day, my brain fog would clear and I’d get a great burst of clarity and well I suppose intelligence??
But at the back of my mind the fear of the WD’s was always there and the knowledge that I’d need at least 3 weeks off work to get off the stuff.

One of the worst aspects of the addiction is that you start looking at life through a porthole, you miss around 60-70% of what’s going on around you because you can’t concentrate and what’s more, you don’t care.

I used to be a very energetic and funny person before, but under Kratom I just went with the flow , ate, drank, worked, slept and that was it, I stopped socialising coz I didn’t need to and didn’t care really.
Kratom really steals your soul away and leaves you a hollow shadow of yourself.

So now I’m Kratom free.
I took my last dose 7 days ago.

I did taper a bit, but I was just so excited to be returning to the real world that I rushed a bit, plus I didn’t want to be WDing during Christmas.

The first night wasn’t too bad although the old restless legs kicked in, but I’m used to dealing with that and I just force myself to lie still, even when it’s driving me literally mad, I knew it wouldn’t last forever.

Then over the next 4 days I descended into the ‘twilight zone’.
I couldn’t sleep, eat, sit, I could shit however and that’s something I’ve not been really able to do freely do for a couple of years (constipation).
The nastiest part is the fatigue, which is so all encompassing that it makes doing anything difficult, even standing takes a great amount of planning and effort, so much so that I’d prefer to just lie there.
I’d sweat and be hot and cold at the same time, I’d sneeze uncontrollably, I’ve not had too much depression, probably because I know I’m coming out the other side of WD’s now and that’s such a cheerful thought that it’s holding back the depression.
Oh, I did have a episode of melancholy on the second day,which made me tearful and I’d cry at the drop of a hat, even at tv commercials lol?? wtf??

Now I’m on day 7 and I’m getting alot better.
I wouldn’t say I’m over it yet though, I’m still very fatigued and achy and I’m absolutely freezing cold all the time, which is the worst part atm.
I’m lucky in a way though, I had just over 3 weeks holiday saved from work, which I solely intended to use to kick Kratom.

It’s not easy to do, but it’s doable and I’m not gonna give up, I want my life back again.

As I said before, the majority of what Kratom has to offer is good, but if you’re an idiot like me and kid yourself it won’t happen to you, you won’t get addicted, then you’re fooling yourself badly.

By all means try this stuff, but just try to follow the experiences of others and don’t over do it.

You’ll have to pay the piper back some day.

3:06 am January 4th, 2013

I was glad to have found this site. I am currently suffering. It helps to see others here – not because you’ve suffered but that I am not alone. I quit cold turkey on 1-1-2013. Today is day 3. The suffering only strengthens my will to quit because I can not imagine going through this EVER again.

I quit Kratom a couple of years ago and recall having some serious withdrawals that only lasted 3 or 4 days at that time but I was drinking Indo Leaf tea and some extracts. I went back to it about 8 months ago and it always starts out as a nice relaxant but turns into being a slave to the plant – for me. I have spent 8k in 2012 on nothing but extracts and with the tolerance going up … I couldn’t do without it; first thing in the morning, 3 at work, another 2 or so at home later. I am currently depressed and at times very despondent and lost feeling. I still have to perform on my job as well. This is between me and God. I have a co-worker that helped me out with a couple of benzos and at night a little bud to help sleep. I wake up several times throughout the night with PAWs, crawling leg, achy bones; I get confortable for maybe 2 minutes in bed and have to switch positions … constantly moving about in the bed. I will get up in the middle of the night and take a melatonin come back to bed and toss and turn until I fall out. Hot shower in the morning really helps …. and sipping on coffee has been a plus for me. My habit has been a secret … it breaks my heart. I am making things right now …. for the most important things in my life: my God, my wife, kids and of course me. I wish all of you the best of luck getting off of it.

5:17 pm January 4th, 2013

I have been trying to get off this stuff for a while-it is so difficult.At 48-72 hours I give up because I just can’t function. What a nightmare.

5:38 pm January 4th, 2013

Hey JR.

You haven’t done anything wrong you know, you haven’t hurt anyone else, you may have cocked you life up a bit, but you’ll be normal again soon.
Your memory will some back, your mood will regulate to neutral (I’m on day 9 now I think of WD’s and I’m feeling almost back to my old self.
There is a little bit of melancholy and boredom and I’m still very tired all the time, but I can feel the old systems re-booting.
It’s sort of interesting to experience too, it’s amazing how much you forget about the time before Kratom, just how much more alive you felt.
I wouldn’t say i’m completely over it yet, but I’m about 85% mended physically and 70% mentally, I’m starting to properly look forward to stuff now, even washing and mucking out the animals, whereas before I’d leave it and leave it and then get into trouble coz I’d think, “it’s not that important” or “it’ll wait”.
I’m still having issues with RLS but it lessens every night.

I went out on my motorbike today and I found I could actually ride the thing fast again, when I was on Krat I kept blaming the bike for not steering well, or that the gear change was horrible, now I realise it was me that was off, not the bike.

Mate, it is so worth you getting off this stuff, I feel sorry for you that you have to work, I don’t think I could have got through this had I had to work as well.
Can’t you take some time off with “the winter vomiting bug”, that’s what I’ve been telling everyone?

Look,ifyou wanna talk to a bloke who’s going through exactly the same shit as you,then you can skype me if you like? drobium771

7:45 pm January 4th, 2013

This will be my last reply and I wish all of you the best of luck. Drobium said some things that are very similar with me. I started taking Kratom because of my alcohol use or misuse. I was a binge drinker and it was common for me to go months without drinking only to reward myself after a good weeks work or what have you. Sometimes the binges could last up to 4 days and when I would come to, it wasn’t uncommon to find a thousand dollars missing from my account or my girlfriend wouldn’t be around anymore. I have to add that I drank alcohol to combat anxiety.

Then I found kratom. I have to admit in the beginning I took more than required fueling the fire that gives it a bad name. I quit numerous times. The last time I quit I did it with a very regimented month long taper and it was a piece of cake. But in fact the first day I was without kratom, the same familiar symptoms came back from before I even knew what kratom was. The same chest caving anxiety and worst of all the urge to drink. The two years I had been taking kratom I had not had the urge to drink once. And because of that my life had improved immensely. I had my girlfriend back, I had my career back, I had my life back. But then there was that urge to drink, lingering around saying I’m here to take that all away from you now.

So I had a choice. What if I used kratom as if it were my medication which is exactly what nature intended it to be and not to be abused. In my mind I thought I don’t need to take any anxiety meds which IMO is worse than kratom. So I swore off extracts and started taking a very small dose, so small it’s not even worth mentioning. I don’t even get the euphoric effects but I never have the anxiety and I never have the urge to drink. And I NEVER go over my self prescribed dose.

So there it is, sure it’s an existence I would rather not have but the good overwhelmingly out weighs the bad and I’m not ever going back to that life and if this is what I have to do to prevent me from going there then so be it, because its the only thing that has ever worked. Like I said in the beginning I wish all of you the best of luck. It’s not fun but I know you’ll get to that inner peace we all once enjoyed. Thanks.

11:49 pm January 5th, 2013

Thanks Drobium … it means a lot to me that you would offer to chat with me on Skype. I don’t have an account – but might create one so that we can chat.

Today is day 5 for me. I must say that I am feeling better physically but the mental aspect is not so good. I find myself crying from time to time, but at least I can keep it private – as I said before – between God and I. I am committed to staying off so at least that is not a concern for me. I drive right past the K supply shop twice a day. What drives me is the pain that I have felt getting over it and I have a high threshold for pain. I have done it cold turkey after being on extracts for 10 months.

I don’t want to convey that this plant is evil …. or needs to be scheduled; it has wonderful effects that have helped a lot of people with other additions and pain. One just has to understand what they’re getting into and to be careful. The entire reason why I got on it was due to depression and it helped – but for me personally it didn’t resolve anything – it simply caused me to not care as much about the reason why I was in the state to begin with. Now, however, I am facing all of it head – on with the hope that over time my mental faculties come back.
Jennifer, I pray that you can lick it. I sense your struggle and completely sympathize with you. You can do it!

Lastly it has helped me immensely to have found this board online…. just knowing that we’re not alone while going through this.

3:05 pm January 8th, 2013

The only way to use kratom responsibly for depression or anxiety (as a legitimate medicine) is to limit yourself staunchly. If you find yourself escalating, using more, more, you have to cut back. If you take above 10g a day, even of plain leaf, you will begin to feel the w/d from it. Keep your usage low, only use plain leaf, and you avoid the bad stuff. “Less is more” with kratom. Too much and it’s benefits escape you completely. Though it may help you in small amounts, the lesson it inevitably teaches you is one of self-discipline. Don’t depend on it utterly. Take breaks. NEVER use extracts or enhanced products, NEVER. It’s w/d effects are a mirror. Only use this herb if you have this capacity. Otherwise you’re going to end up chasing your own happiness.

10:02 pm January 8th, 2013

Well it’s been 2 weeks since I quit and I’m so bloody alive, I can’t begin to describe how much more alive I feel.
My social life has gone through the roof and I’m finding that I want to go out more and more.
Today I went down to visit a mate in Oxford on a whim on my motorbike.
We had a great time and when I left, it rained all the way back, but I didn’t mind, it seemed to re-affirm my connection to the real world.
Everything seems to vivid and fresh and clean now, I’m all excited even as I type.

I still have some nagging symptoms of WD’s, I wake up feeling down for around 30 minutes and also cold, but it soon wears off.
I’m still having trouble with restless legs and it’s enough to keep me awake for 1/3rd of the night, but it’s lessening every day now.

Oh, I didn’t mention before that I had alot of toilet trouble, I found it very difficult to control the release of my bladder whilst on Kratom and sometimes it wouldn’t happen at all, which would cause me anxiety which in turn would make my bladder lock up even more.
It got so bad at one point that I’d avoid trying to go to the toilet socially and plan my times around how long I could hold my bladder??? I’m such a twat!
But now I can go to the toilet as free as anything.
I know that sounds weird but I found that Kratom kept me so distracted from the process of having a wee that I’d not be able to do it coz I kept getting distracted by stuff.
Such a weird , weird thing?

There are some bad points, but that says more of me than of Kratom.
I’ve upped my alcohol intake by around 1/3, which is no where near as bad as before, but I’ve noticed it and it worries me :-/

I don’t want to f*ck this up again and go back to drinking, that was the whole point of Kratom in the first place.
I just need more will power, but I know I’m pretty weak willed when it comes to abuse.

I just feel so damn good atm, I don’t know whether it’s all my subdued dopamine cells firing back into life, but I feel brilliant.
After last week’s weird melancholy and lack of sleep, I never believed I COULD ever feel like this again without drugs??

I do feel a bit anxious that it may be some sort of over activation of parts of my brain that had been shut down for so long, and that it may go and I be left in depression again, why am I so nervous?? will this last?? I need it to.

I want you guys to know that there IS the other side of the WD’s and it’s amazing, it’s like a whole new drug lol .

Please please please don’t give in to it, you’ll feel so low you could slit your wrists, you’ll be knackered, you’ll hate your family and friends, you’ll think it’ll never end, but it will… I absolutely promise you.

Don’t give up 🙂

1:22 pm January 11th, 2013

I do find it deeply offensive that people should judge some addicts by some sort of blurred moral superiority.
I didn’t choose to become addicted, it just creeps up on you, you don’t even realise.

What’s more, no-one knows about my addiction except you guys and I’ve not asked for any help whatsoever to get off the stuff, I did it completely alone.
It’s been really difficult at times, but now it’s done and apart from lingering tiredness and some weird sleep patterns, I’m back to normal now and functioning well.

How can people be so critical about what is nothing more or less than a mistake? (addiction)

If you fell over in the street because you weren’t looking where you were going and broke your leg, which then took months to fix and get back to work, no-one would say a thing.
But if you suffer from anxiety or depression, pain and you don’t want to go down the prescription route because of the extreme addiction and WD’s potential, suddenly you are the most evil person on Earth??

Sometimes, shit like this happens and it’s usually the person who’s made the mistake that has to sort it out.

It’s all very well saying that “I’m able to control myself” and “I’m able to regulate my intake”, but there are over 6 billion people on this planet and you are a rarity.

Now, I shall do my best to stay away from temptation, but I think I’ve paid a pretty high price both financially and mentally/physically, so why should I have to put up with public hostility and prejudice?

Now I’m gonna get on with my job of helping people who’ve fallen into this pit and that is what this thread is all about.

1:11 am January 12th, 2013

Today is day 11 for me. I feel fantastic!! I am so happy that I licked it. Honestly, I didn’t start feeling ok until day 7 – so I do feel fortunate as I have read that it took longer for others. It was 5 days of hell. The hell actually drove me all the more to stay off … because I didn’t want to EVER have to go through it again. I couldn’t sleep enough for that week… but didn’t miss a beat with my life. I had to continue to go to work and function. My addiction to Kratom went much deeper than some may imagine. I was doing it secretly and the effects of it caused me to want to isolate myself (I still want to do that … so I know that my mind is not back 100%) …. so my loved ones must have noticed that I had grown “colder” than I had already been towards them. I began to “need” to take the extracts just to co-exist with them. So I was degrading them by doing that. I also lost any self respect and life at times didn’t even seem worth living. I didn’t want to be home, or work. The thought of getting off the K terrified me. 5 days ago I started P90x (exercise program) and I feel great already. Every day that passes, I feel my mind coming back all the more.

I know that this is getting pretty personal and is almost off topic on withdrawal. I just hope that maybe it helps some one.


12:35 pm January 12th, 2013

@ JR

I’m really really glad for you dude.

It’s so weird how fresh and in focus everything looks isn’t it?
You can see and take things in again and I bet you feel more intelligent than you did on Kratom? it’s just so much easier to think without it.

Your need for socialising should start to come back over the next couple of days and that’s when you really know you’re over it.

Really, really pleased for you matey 😀

2:05 pm January 12th, 2013

I am still having a really hard time with this. I shudder to think how much worse off I’d be if I had delved into the world of extracts. I have really bad back problems that are completely relieved with kratom-but return 10 fold within hours of quitting.

9:03 pm January 14th, 2013


It’s not your back matey, honest.
Everything hurts like hell after quitting Kratom, hopefully it should ease over the next few days.

Don’t give it a chance to convince you to start it again, you’re doing really well, the worst is gonna be over over the next couple of days.

Tiredness lasts rather a long time, well it has with me, I’m 20 days off the stuff now and I’m still running on sort of half power??
I’m getting my endurance back, I don’t think I realised how much I relied on the stuff to keep me going.
I was literally fueled by Kratom, what a weird thought?

Still, “it’ll pass”, as my Granma used to say 🙂

9:39 pm January 14th, 2013

Now I’m clean,i’m sort of having some really weird thoughts about the stuff and I don’t know if it’s because I’m an addict or what but…

Well, I sort of feel like Kratom is a ‘friend’ I’m ditching??

I don’t want to be too hard on it, but I know it’s the type of friend that would lie to your face whilst getting off with your girl?

I really, really, don’t want it to be regulated, but I want there to be more information on the effects and addiction potential, just like there is with alcohol.

I think the whole problem with me it that I’m a horticulturalist by trade and I just kept telling myself it’s just a ‘herbal’ thing, but then so is heroine?

I’ve experimented with lots of plant ‘drugs’ in their pure form and I think I just got a bit cocky?

I have a renewed respect for plants now lol 😀

10:18 pm January 14th, 2013

Ok i never thought of this before but here are a few things that helped with the symptoms.

Paracetamol x2, these should be taken right before attempting to sleep, don’t over dose, only 8 per 24 hours.
I found these helped somewhat with the restless legs and arms, but only for around 4 hours (but that’s enough when you’ve not slept in 4 days lol)

Clonodine, these also will help you beat the squits and upset stomach, and other symptoms, but they’re an opiate so DON’T go over what it says on the label or you’ll be f**ked!

Lots and lots of hot baths, I mean whenever you feel like it.
When I was WDing badly, I only felt physically normal in the bath, my temperature was kept even and I could relax all those awful muscle spasms that you get.
You even feel better for an hour afterwards even though you slowly cool down to fecking freezing again!

For sleeping, now this takes the most planning, effort and time!
I took 1x tablespoon of valerian root + 1 table spoon of chamomile in around half a point of only just boiled water.
(don’t scoff at herbs,they were what go you into this shit in that first place remember!)
Don’t boil it or you’ll evaporate the oils and then drink before sleep.
Note : this stuff smell like absolute shit and vomit, but you’ll not care after the first 48 hours of no sleep.
Valerian is a powerful drug and along with chamomile, should knock you out for an hour or so (which you’ll be so glad of).
Note: valerian can give some people the most vivid dreams and nightmares (it did me, but they were so weird I actually enjoyed them, watching a man having a fake jaw sewn back on with an needle and thread, is that a nightmare??)

Leave the windows shut no matter how hot you are, because you’ll go icy cold the minute sleep comes and it’s too much effort to get out of bed to shut a window when you need sleep, sleep is the best relief you’ll get.

Try really hard to get out and socialise, you’ll find the old ‘you’ kicking back in and this will give you a rush of enthusiasm to quit.

Don’t just stay at home, I think that I delayed my recovery coz I was so unwilling to leave the house, but when I did my spirit lifted to almost euphoric!
I think we associate being in home with being in WD’s and therefore it’s bares down upon us.

Eat and drink , you”ll be absolutely without an ounce of energy if you don’t, you have to force yourself to eat and drink and trust me, I know how badly you don’t want to.
But if you don’t, it makes your runs and tiredness so much worse.

Keep convincing yourself that everything you are feeling is fake, all the sadness, hopelessness, anger, irritability, lethargy, anti-sociability, it’s all a ball of shite.
you are not responsible for it, your lack of Kratom has left a hole and that is what you are feeling, it’s not you, get angry with it, tell it to piss off, just don’t succumb to it, it generally only last a couple of days.
There will be a nagging melancholy and anxiety left, but that is normal and fades as the days pass.

Relish the return to normality, this is now your drug! If you’re anything like me, the change from Kratom world to the ordinary world (listen to Duran Duran ‘Ordinary World’ the lyrics fit absolutely perfectly with Kratom addiction and WDs).

The ordinary world is there, but it’s not ordinary, you’ll be amazed at how long you’ve been away and how much of it you’ve missed, it’s the most epic feeling on Earth to return here after so long away.
I’m actually LIVING now as opposed to ‘being’.
You are gonna love what’s out there, just don’t give up!!! 🙂

Stephanie chase
12:36 am January 18th, 2013

Hello,I’m on day 2 of withdrawal from an 11 year kratom habit 40 gr a day including extracts,tincture,and powder.I didn’t get any sleep last night and today going out of my mind with aches,muscle spasms ,Sobbing for no apparent reason,cold and hot flashes,hazy thoughts and no appetite,just thirst.the good news is I’m still here so there u go!

12:41 am January 24th, 2013

Hi Drobium,

Thank you for the kind words. Today is day 23 off of the K. I’m not even tempted to go back. I can’t say that my mind or socialism is coming back. Most days I really just want to be left alone. There may be some damage … who knows at this point. My wife says that she feels “dumber” after doing it for 3 years … and she’s been quit for over 2 years. I never want to go through that again. How are you holding up?

@ Jennifer & Stephanie, I hope that you are hanging in there. It takes an incredible amount of willpower to persevere through it. But it is worth it. Best of luck to you both.

3:53 pm January 24th, 2013

As JR was saying it is worth it just to be free of the routine… The hardest part for me was the unknown not knowing if I will ever be right again…It does it is awesome never felt so good… I have been doing kratom for almost 2 years dosing 3 times a day well over an oz habit.. Went cold turkey don’t get me wrong I did jack up the 1st time made it 7 days and right back with it..The 2nd time just did it never looked back and I have been 2mths clean… Ok to help with the w/d try loperamide it is a life saver no restless legs most of the physical withdrawal was gone not all but most.. Just remember the withdrawals will end you will feel so much better it is doable…I love you all this blog has been a huge part of saving me from the “K” I thank you all so very much…

Stephanie chase
4:26 pm January 26th, 2013

Thank you JR I’m sure your wife is not dumber but that for some reason we think we are smarter while on it more acting less thinking lol.I am still not quite 100% but sleeping and the worst is over.i also found that I can quit smoking more easily now.when I think back to how this all started I remember that I was suffering silentlly married to a man that was older established rich and abusive.he inflicted so much emotional pain that when I first found kratom it was a blessing,it made me feel stronger more able to endure,it gave me the strength to leave the marriage and start over ,it’s not so much that I am defending kratom but I will say it served its purpose and now it’s time to find my own strength without it.for all of you suffering in silence with withdrawal hang in there you are stronger than you think .

Stephanie chase
4:46 pm January 26th, 2013

@jennifer,it’s a whole different ball game when you use it for pain , rock and a hard place, I do not believe aside from Withdrawal symptoms upon stopping that kratom hurts the body or mind unless mixed with other drugs, I have done extensive research on it for years( taking it for so long I wanted to know what it was doing to the body) I would even get checked out once in a while for liver enzyme tests blood tests etc to see if kratom was causing any physical ailments in comparison to opioids ,nothing no physical issues.point being if you are suffering from pain and need relief kratom is not physically damaging like pain killers,etc.noone should live with pain if they can help it I hope you find comfort ,I’m sorry you are hurting.

10:01 pm January 27th, 2013

Hey JR

I’m holding up well tbh.

I am finding that I’m still getting periods of melancholy, especially first thing in the morning and my energy levels seem to have leveled off at ‘moderate’ , I don’t have half the amount of energy that I did on Kratom and have had a few creeping thoughts of “perhaps I was better off under Krat’?”

But I’m still clean of the stuff, I do get days still where I just want to be alone, but I think it’s getting better slowly.

I think that you have a steep recovery period initially, then it slows off and takes a good while longer to get rid of the lingering lethargy and blues?

Or maybe this is how I was before Kratom, I can’t quite remember lol???

The good sides are that I’m getting more and more social as the weeks pass, I’ve got some job opportunities coming up and also my social calender is fuller than it’s been for over 10 years.

All in all, I’m hopeful that i’ll make a full recovery, I think most of what’s left is mental issues, but we’ve just gotta get on with it and tell them where to piss off lol.

After over 2 1/2 years of being ‘high’ constantly, i’m sure a bit of melancholy is what should be expected.

I do ‘miss’ my time on Kratom for the good aspects, but I also remember that bad parts too and that’s what’s keeping me away from the stuff.

I’m enjoying clear thinking the most, I can even do maths again in my head without writing stuff down 😀

I hope you wife hasn’t had any long term damage? I have researched Kratom in fine detail and have not come across any accounts of permanent memory damage or anything?
Perhaps it just make our brains a bit more lazy or something?

Come to think of it, perhaps my intelligence level’s not where it was, it’s really hard to tell?
I don’t think I’m able to recall things as quickly as before Kratom, but I am able to recall them?

@Jennifer and Stephanie …

I hope you two are still ok and holding in there?

Please give us an update on how you’re both doing and don’t feel like you’re going through this for nothing, there’s light at the end of the tunnel, we’ve proved that 🙂

All the best …..

Drobium 🙂

Stephanie chase
4:08 pm January 28th, 2013

@Dobrium, sounds like you’re a fighter,I’m glad for you thank you for the kind words
@JR I guess you are nearing or at the month mark that’s awesome,really.
As for me I guess withdrawal from an 11 year habit had to have its issues as I ended up dehydrated and screaming from headache pain,(didn’t go to er or dr. Or anything like that)I’m certainly not looking to give “them” and u all know who I men by “them” any excuses to illegalized kratom,I know you all may not feel the same about this but I do believe for some people it warrants use either occasionally or to escape opioids used for pain or an addiction,for me,I still think wow I need that energy back,but like Drobium said I don’t miss the bad parts waiting for that damn truck to come hoping it will come before work so that I’m not sick all day crazy huh! I can’t believe I started so young,I guess for me affording it was not an issue I modeled for a living and made decent money now I know where all the confidence came from lol,I’m doing better thoughi guess you could say the worst is over,just feel very weepy,I’m not a cryer so this is annoying.a friend of mine suggested going to aa or an group meetings,but I don’t think so,I know how some drug users or ex users view us kratom user,like our withdrawal,our addiction couldn’t possible compare and what are we complaining about,I’ll tell you this if the withdrawal I went through with kratom is of no comparison then they should be dead while in withdrawal because I felt like I was dying.all and all I’m HERE going through this with you guys!

Ana Litik
2:28 am January 30th, 2013

We’ve recently discovered our son is addicted to Kratom. He began using it with Kava in a drink at a local Kava bar during his last year of high school. He went away to college and after two semesters came home abruptly so he could return to his addiction at the local Kava bar…full-blown. He’s been spending $30-$60 per day on the drinks. This is more than a “crack” addict spends per day. It’s been a true nightmare for all of us who love him. He cannot see that this drug is destroying him. He’s searched out pyschiatrist to give him relief drugs such as Lexapro, Xanax, Gabba Pentin, Clonapin,Addoral and Trazadone to help relieve the side effects of withdrawal while he was away at college. He is totally messed up from this legal drug in the US. He’s walked away from college, his dreams of a career, his old friends, and his appearance. He looks awful, has lost weight from no appetite or barely an appetite, his complexion and skin has taken a huge hit, he no longer has much interest in any activities other than hanging out with other friends who use this drug and he is delusional at times. It’s a nightmare for his mother and father…we just want our only son back but we can’t find any answers how to get him back. He’s convinced he is not addicted to it. We’ve tried to take him to a rehab to get him to realize he’s an addict but he walked away from that. Our only solution now is therapy. This substance is dangerous and is killing our son! If you are experimenting with this or thinking about trying this drug…please, walk the other way! It’s every parents true nightmare!!! Worst thing is, in the US…it’s legal!!!

1:47 pm February 1st, 2013

@Ana. I empathize with you. What your son is taking is extract. The most potent form of kratom which is also the hardest to quit and most on here will tell you to stay away from. However, there is another side to this coin. The method in which your son was introduced to kratom is dangerous. Kratom has been very beneficial when taken responsibly just like anything else. It’s a safer alternative to pain meds, anti depressants, etc. I know you didn’t come here to hear that. You are in distress and want your son back. From what you already said he obviously doesn’t fit into the category of people this plant has helped and needs help fast. The best people to talk to are here. We all have PhDs in this stuff and we know more about it than health care providers. I am almost certain I live in your area. If you want to pass along your email we can begin discussing a stragety to get your son off this.

8:07 pm February 1st, 2013

@ Ana

It’s truly awful that this has happened to you son and at his age I can see how the impacts are far worse than say of a 35 years old man like me.

What I would suggest is that he tapers off the stuff gradually.

DO NOT, get him on to prescription meds, you’ll lose him forever, they are 1000% worse than Kratom.
Although this may sound crazy, you should get hime a bulk supply of Kratom for the time being from a wholesaler (I can give you a link if you want) this means that the monetary side of it at least won’t be a worry for you and him.

You should know that Kratom doesn’t cause psychosis nor does it have any long term physical complaints, that’s not to say it will be easy to get him off the stuff.

Being a teenager, he’s going to be an emotional mess anyway and quitting Kratom will be a nightmare for him and even more for you, but only for the first week to 9 days, after that he’ll return to normal (depending on what normal was, there must be an underlying problem as to why he’s taking it, there always is).

Just don’t worry too much, as long as he’s on Kratom, he not awfully likely to go onto worse stuff, it tends to keep you in a ‘safe’ place whilst you are on it and leaving that ‘safe’ zone isn’t all that attractive tbh.

Don’t push the ‘addict’ thing down his throat, he’ll really REALLY resent it, you need to accept his addiction for the time being and help him to realise that there is a whole ‘new’ exciting world outside of Kratom, which whilst on the stuff, you really do forget about.

There will be a part of him that realises he’s an addict and probably he would like to stop, but the fear of withdrawals is, although not frightening, is enough to put you off stopping.
He needs to learn about the WD process and that it does end and he WILL be able to live without the stuff although it will be hard.

I stopped after 2.5 years of downing Kratom and I knew what to expect and prepared for it.
One thing he won’t be able to do whilst WD’ing is work or college, he needs at least 2 weeks to get rid of the physical WD’s and about another couple to rid himself of the metal aspects that mainly comprise of melancholy and anxiety.

Just rest assured that your son has picked probably one of the safest drugs to get addicted to at least (over alcohol, tobacco etc) there’s really not too much need to be worried that he’s suddenly turned into a heroine addict or something. 🙂

I’d actually suggest that the Kava Kava may be more of a problem than the Kratom, the effects are like being drunk somewhat, but with more euphoria.
I was able to work perfectly well and efficiently whilst on Kratom and I’ll even go as far as saying I’ve never worked as well or been more productive as when I was on Kratom, it’s not an evil drug, it’s just a massive pain in the arse if you need to quit it.

At the worst of my habit I was only spending around £60 per month on the stuff and that was for 800 grams , far less than when I was drinking and much much less than any true opiate habit.

I’d suggest the bulk buy as first base, then draw up a tapering chart and get him to taper down to nothing by around 1/2g less each day (depending on how he was taking it, you really need to find out what strain of Krat he’s on and what dosage, if it’s extracts, then it’ll take alot longer for him to quit, but tapering helps loads 🙂
For example: I was on around 30-40g per day of green malay and I dropped to 10g after 2 weeks , then went cold turkey and it did suck a bit.

Also, don’t get too hung up on the withdrawal reports above, when we write those we are all mostly withdrawing and are in REALLY negative moods, so everything always seems so much worse when reading them back, looking back I feel all like ‘wtf, why are you being so negative, it’s not ALL bad”.
That’ll be the worst part for you as parents, he’ll resent you and be really negative, hostile, moody, practically every emotions is magnified whilst your brain resets itself after Kratom, so be patient with him and don’t crowd him, most WD’ers want to be left alone.
Just try and remind him of how well he’s progressing and how near he is to getting off the stuff.
Keep pointing out the old systems rebooting, like libido, clear vision, memory, curiosity, wanting to socialise etc.

He’ll get better for sure, trust me 🙂

If you need any more help please let me know.

That goes for any of you guys who need advice.

8:20 pm February 1st, 2013


Kratom WD’s for someone who’s not experienced WD’s are bloody awful!
It’s like saying to someone who has influenza that it doesn’t hurt or doesn’t make you as ill as Plague, you still both feel like absolute shite and both don’t want to be there.

It really winds me up when crack heads try to trump your WD’s, what the f**k is the point??

We all suffer the Wd’s as payment for all the good bits, as I said before, Kratom for me was 60/40 in favour of good, it’s not evil, just like alcohol isn’t evil when used properly.

And one day I seriously will consider using Kratom again, maybe even if it’s just as a test of my resolve?

Reply to Ana Litik
9:58 pm February 2nd, 2013

@Ana Litik

I have to disagree with you. I have been struggling with Fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue, and Anxiety for 7 years. After seeing 6 different specialists and trying all sorts of treatments, trigger point injections, physical therapy and god knows how many different anxiety, muscle relaxer and pain medications I was still in pain, exhausted, anxious and now broke. I realized that none of this was helping, i was tired of being broke due to all my medical bills, and came to the conclusion that the stress of having to go back and forth with my dr office & health insurance was causing me more anxiety and pain. No one, especially someone as young as myself, should have to take 5 different medications 2-3 times a day. I decided enough was enough and so I decided to get off these crazy medications and started looking into alternative & natural medicine.

After speaking with multiple doctors, alternative & naturopathic doctors, and doing research for myself, I decided that herbal medicine was my best bet as theres no cure for fibromyalgia or chronic fatigue and anxiety medicine makes you feel out of it. I first tried a few different herbal remedies and then I was recommended to try kava for anxiety & was told that kratom can help with pain & fatigue. After doing research I found that they are 100% natural, have been used for over 3,000 years as medical treatment, and that even pharmaceuticals are exerting some efforts in creating kratom-based medicines. I also discovered that there are kava bars locally that I could go to instead of having to order online.

I have been going to a kava bar for over a year now and I have to say that it has helped me tremendously. In fact, a lot of the customers that go to kava bars are doctors, chiropractors, acupuncturists, or are in the medical field themselves. Since I have been going I have only had one panic attack, i am only taking 1 medication which is due to my CFS, and my daily pain level has gone from an 8 down to a 3. Kratom has never given me withdrawls or caused me to become addicted. I have found that kava and kratom has proven to be significantly beneficial to me.

Taking all of those medications was a lot worse than taking something natural like kava &kratom. In fact, there are people who take it that are recovered drug addicts and it helps them from turning back to drugs. The people you will find at kava bars are everyone from doctors, chiropractors, acupuncturists, to recovered addicts, to people such as myself who have fibromyalgia, anxiety, lupus, depression, or some other medical condition.

I think your son is either struggling with anxiety or another medical issue, was miserable being away from home, or hated his college, but I don’t believe your son would return home from college just to be close to a kava bar. You might want to consider the idea that your relationship that you have with your son could be a factor in the way he feels and acts. I was terrified when I moved away to college, I was 18 and all of a sudden becoming an adult and the fact that I did not have a close relationship with my family like all my other friends did caused an overwhelming amount of stress and emotional pain for me. I would suggest working on strengthening the communication & relationship you have with your son before blaming it on something such as Kratom. Yes, he might be spending a lot at the kava bar, but it’s probably because of a huge amount of anxiety and it’s definately better than him turning to drugs.

8:17 pm February 11th, 2013

I had a 2 year kratom addiction Crushed bali about 5 to 6 t spoons a day. I am on day 7 and it’s been a hard 7 days. Almost 0 sleep and tons of discomfort that feels like pain. The worst of it came the first 3 days. I quit because I was tired of living my life in fear. Fear of being a bad father, Fear of running out and having to experience the W/Ds, fear of flying and having to smuggle kratom on my body or in some container hoping to avoid having to explain what it is to security at the airport. Mostly fear of knowing that I was at a point that it just didn’t matter if I took it because I knew that no matter what I was going to feel like Crap because now I was using it to just feel normal and that was barely working. I shouldn’t need to shovel kratom down my throat to take my kids to the park. Thats what I’ve been doing for two years now. Leaning on this plant to give me the courage to face the day when all I really want is to give my family and friends back my true self not someone hopped up on drugs. Before this last two year binge I had similar runs each a year maybe two. This has been going on for 10 years and I have maybe quit three or four times each time being harder than the next. The longest I have ever succesfully stayed off the K with prior attempts to stop was maybe a month. This time I know I am done for sure. I had an epiphany the day I quit. My oldest boy just turned 10 and I pretty much have been medicating his entire life which means he’s never really even ever met the real me. I may not be able to stop for myself, but I know that I can do it for them! I quit for my children! Find a reason and just stop. One last note. I have always quit cold turkey because I dont have the willpower to taper! I always want more. I usually will make an attempt to quit lasting 30 hours maybe 48 hours really feeling the pain pushing myself as long as I can. I always fail the first time. But with that failure within a few weeks I always find the strength to try again and the second time going cold turkey is when I find the courage and willpower to stick it out. One thing I have learned these last 10 years is that the next time i quit it will be harder and I don’t ever want to go through this again so I really believe I am done with it. Good luck to everyone!

8:42 pm February 11th, 2013

One last last note!!! The reason I think that I have thus far always been successful of the 2nd attempt when going cold turkey is this. When I attempt to go cold turkey on my first attempt I have every intention of quitting but the discomfort and pain and everything else that comes with w/d is so unbearable at some point in my mind I realize I am going to cave but I just now want to see how long I can last. Knowing that I’ll probably take kratom at some point seems to help with the fight and help me to hang in there longer. My first attempt this go around lasted slightly less than two days. Heres what I have come to discover. When you do this once you make your second attempt the pain is 30% less. I’ve now quit kratom 5 times and this is how I’ve done it every time. So if tapering doesnt work for you. One friday night after work just test yourself and feel it pushing yourself as long as you can and I don’t mean 8 hours. Atleast 30 hours, more if possible. Feel it! Accept it! And when you make your next attempt it wont be as bad as long as in between the first attempt and the second attempt you don’t go on a K binge. Prepare yourself to try again by taking a little less then just go for it. On my second attempt I hadn’t planned to stop. I took my last dose at midnight on a monday. Usually I wake up and I need another but not that day, I felt OK! Then I thought about my children and how I had been basically On K almost every day of their lives my oldest being 10. I decided to make my second attempt right then and there! Now Im on day 7 feeling alot better than I did on three. But I barely made it two days on my first attempt. My second attempt the first couple days were much easier to deal with.

10:03 pm February 12th, 2013

I have been free from Kratom for 5 months now. You can look back in the responses and read my story back in Sept 2012. When I wrote that, I was just in the beginning stages of my recovery and I had no clue what the next few months would bring! I went through a time of feeling wonderful and then something would hit me and cause me to be anxious (like my baby getting very sick with a fever and throwing up) or at one point after quiting I chose to have a few drinks with my husband on our anniversary, and those things sent me back into a complete and total panic/anxiety attack and depression which included upset stomache, insomnia, and rapid heart rate that lasted DAYS and sometimes over a week! But they felt like eternity!!!!! I found myself back at the dr office begging for help! I was determined not to get back on Kratom! My dr knew nothing… put me on anti-depressants which made me feel 10x worse! And then she referred me to a heart dr… the heart dr did the most good. After a 24 hr heart monitor and an ultrasound it was determined that i was having palpations and he perscribed me a beta blocker. It was a life saver!!!! Calmed me down, helped me function and within a few weeks he had me weened off of it and I was feeling awesome. Since then (for about 3 months now) I have had very minor issues with craving Kratom and the anxiety. I believe each time the feeling comes over me and I stand strong saying “no way will you control me!” I get healthier and healthier. Mentally and physically!
I also did a lot of research and found that some things I was doing were causing me to have issues in my brain chemisty. Things that suppress the GABA in your brain (Kratom for one), when taken regularly, will cause serious anxiety and depression when stopped… well it takes time and sometimes a whole lot of time to repair those neortransmittors in the brain after being supressed for so long. The key is to naturally boost your seritonin and GABA as much as possible and stay clear of things that supress even for a moment because it can cause a chain reaction and may send you back into a panic attack like it did me… those things to stay away from are Kava… even the regular old sleepy time kava tea you buy at the grocery store. And alcohol… just don’t drink. It’s not worth it and will send you right back into an addiction state before you know it. Take your vits, drink small amounts of caffine and stay away from a sugar. Stress is also a factor… it lowers your GABA.

I just want to encourage you! If you think that you are going to kick this and never have another issue again… you are fooling yourself. Every single person is different in how they withdrawl and how they handle it but one thing is for sure… you will have to say no again! Your flesh will crave what it once had. It will lessen with time… but you will have to stay strong! And YOU CAN stand with confidence! Make the choice now to not allow it to rule in your life and never turn from that. Take on new habits… replace the old and bad with new and good.
And above all keep Jesus center! Run to Him, He is waiting there with open arms. Full of forgiveness, mercy and grace!
Without His never ending love, I would not be free right now!
5 months and forever!!!!!!!! 🙂

1:42 pm March 5th, 2013

I had been taking kratom (green vein borneo) for about two years, with well over a year being steady at 24-48 grams per day. A few days ago I quit cold turkey and found this post. I read the whole thing from start to finish.

First, to the trucker with the really small phallus, I have to tell you that, by your own standards, I’m a bigger and stronger man than you. I’ve managed to use benzos as prescribed off and on for nearly two decades without once having an addiction problem with them. Since they are stronger and more enticing than kratom, I guess I have more self control than you. You are just weak and pathetic when it comes to benzos. Or you could get over yourself and understand that we all have our own demons. I wonder, why were you researching “kratom addiction” in the first place?

Everybody here knows that it isn’t the drug’s fault. But that doesn’t mean that a person shouldn’t blame the drug if it helps them. Dealing with addiction is as much a mental game against one’s self as it is anything else. I hate alcohol. I despise it. I see family and friend’s ruining their lives, and I hate alcohol. Does that mean that I am ignorant to the fact that my friends and family are making their own decisions? That it isn’t alcohol’s fault? That billions of people have used alcohol without any problem? Of course not. But if hating it keeps me sober, everybody would be better off to encourage me to keep on hating it. The point is WHATEVER IT TAKES!! What works for you might not work for some, but that doesn’t matter in the least. Also know that you don’t have all the answers. Nobody here does. We can only offer support because we’ve been there and done that. Those who haven’t don’t understand, and we start this journey thinking that we are completely alone. We are not.

Anyway, here’s my two cents on quitting:

First, I think that people are mentally predisposed to tapering or jumping. I’ve tried to taper (not only with kratom but with harder opiates such as IV dilaudid) and I’ve found the withdrawals to be worse. The drugs are just too enticing. If they are there, I will use them (unless I’m clean. Once I’ve been off for a month or so I could sleep with it and it wouldn’t bother me). So, for me, instead of planning a taper I plan a jump. I find that getting into a completely different environment can help. Drugs become part of your environment and most people use drugs under the same conditions each time. This is why a heroin addict can OD with the exact same dose as he took yesterday just fine, just because his body wasn’t primed for the drug because he wasn’t in the same environment. If you’re suddenly in a completely different place surrounded by different people, your body won’t expect the drug quite so much and the withdrawals will be lessened.

Along with environmental considerations also come responsibilities. This can also be a double edged sword. On one hand, being able to lay in bed for a week is a good way to be sure that nothing will get messed up. However, if you’re laying around doing nothing the WD’s will be worse. The alternative is to put yourself into situations where you HAVE to perform. I have to take care of my baby girl. Obviously, I wouldn’t do this while going through heroin withdrawals, but WD’s from kratom are mild enough to be masked with distractions. Kratom is related to coffee, and what I’m experiencing is about as severe (just in an opposite sort of way). I’m not talking about extracts here, to be sure. Obviously, your WD’s might be much more severe, in which case you’ll have to consider that if you have to work or have other obligations that could help or hurt in dealing with WD’s.

The physical symptoms of the WD’s shouldn’t be a surprise and can be combated with OTC medication to varying degrees of success (and risk). I have a sleeping aid that includes GABA, ZMA, melatonin, L-tryptophan, valerian, chamomile, and 5HTP. This is a good combo. The one OTC med that has helped more than anything is loperamide (immodium). This is actually an opioid agonist, and does have abuse potential (though it requires a bit of work). I started taking 24mg every 12 hours, then 20mg, and my plan is to take 20mg only at night for the next couple of days for a total of about 5 days using the loperamide. For me it completely knocked out any physical symptoms, though emotional symptoms still remain but I can’t say for sure that they are due to the kratom, to be honest. I’m seeing my baby daughter for the first time in 8 months. That’s emotional enough. I cry like a baby, but I think I would anyway.

I did have 5 .5mg xanax (that’s one half of one mg) tabs for anxiety. It isn’t the best benzo. I had them for panic attacks, actually. I took them during the first three days. Probably they helped, but the loperamide is what really worked. Now, what’s cool about loperamide is that it won’t make you “feel” anything. It will simply prevent feelings of WD’s. As such, this is probably the first time you will feel “normal” since starting kratom. No RLS at night, but I do miss sleeping like a baby like I did while taking kratom. Hopefully I will be able to find a way to do that without it.

And what of life after kratom? Well, I come from a long line of alcoholics and drug abusers. I drank heavily for a while and then quit, and was sober of everything for well over a year. Then I thought I was cured, I thought I could drink like a normal person, and I stopped going to my support groups. I could share a bottle of wine with my partner or have a bottle of beer during a football game and I was fine. But alcoholism and addiction, for me, are simply symptoms of a much deeper underlying spiritual problem. I have a disease, and I will never be cured. I need constant treatment. So to the person who recently said that they’re not done with kratom, that they will someday take some if only to “test” themselves, I ask: what if you fail that test? Is it really worth it?

Kratom helped me kick my IV dilaudid addiction. It kept cravings for alcohol in check during a time when I really really really wanted to get hammered all of the time. I was able to sleep better than I ever did before. I was able to go to bed early, sleep like a baby, and get up early and be productive all day. But it was still a crutch, and it is time for me to move on. It is time for me to rely on my family and provide my new baby a better reference with respect to how to cope with life’s challenges. If it were all about me, I’d be wasted and high right now, but I’m so much happier with a higher purpose. The work I do with my daughter will be felt generations from now in her children and their children, and whether they are productive members of society or just leaches wasting tax payer money. Which brings me to the most important thing for me, which is finding a higher power. It is counterproductive for me to say that I have regrets, that I really didn’t enjoy the drugs or that I wouldn’t enjoy them again if I did them. I know that I would. I need to be honest about that.

12:43 pm March 12th, 2013

Hi I’ve been taking kratom for 12 days,I taught it was my s avior got me of methadone pills and oxys and Xanax ,I was pretty much a junkie and taught there was no stopping till death but I start going to meetings and wanted to quit the drugs the withdrawals were so severe that I couldn’t quit until I found kratom.
Now I see by reading posts that it is a powerful drug just like the rest of them,I said I’d just take it for 30 days to get all the hard d rugs out of my system but don’t want to get addicted to it.
I see that I’m switch addiction from one thing to another and I’m just sick of it,can someone give me some advice on 30 days of use will the withdrawals be bad??

12:52 pm March 13th, 2013

@Clifford. Just one thing, although the withdrawals from kratom are a pain I’m the butt, their is no comparison from the drugs you were taking to kratom. Believe me I have been through withdrawals more times than I can count. As for your question, 30 days will be a walk in the park. For getting off the drugs you were speaking of and sticking to a 30 day plan, this is where kratom is a miracle and I commend you for it. Most of the people here have been taking it for years. That’s why the withdrawals can be challenging. And it’s not so much the withdrawals, it’s the weeks after word until your receptors are back to normal. Maybe at day 20 I would start a taper but you’re going to be fine as long as you stick to your 30 day plan. Good luck.

6:36 pm March 15th, 2013

Starting a taper today.I have been taking kratom for a little under a year and am at the point that I just don’t want to take it anymore. I don’t even see the benefit of taking it other than to avoid withdrawal.

My dosing schedule for the last few months has been 5 g. right when I wake up and another 5 right before leaving for work in the morning. I’d take another 5 at lunch and then one 5 g. dose in the evening and a little right before bed. So around 25 grams a day.

So, today, I started with a 4 gram dose first thing in the morning and skipped the dose before leaving for work. I took a 4 gram dose at lunch and plan on postponing my evening dose as long as long as possible but will make it another 4 gram dose and then try a 2 gram dose at bed time. So this would be 14 grams total. Going to stick with this for a few days and then cut the doses some more.

Will update. My plan is to see where I am at for the weekend of the 30th (14 days from now) because I will have a four day weekend and will be going to a wedding out of town and other than going to the wedding, I can lay around sick if I feel like it.

Wish I never would have gotten on this stuff. Should have known better considering my propensity to like opiates way too much and become addicted to them. I’ve kicked IV heroin before in a jail cell, so I am confident that I can do this.

Glad to have this forum to talk about it though, because there really isn’t anyone I want to burden with this in my life.

8:44 pm March 15th, 2013

here I am back again. Day 4, feeling like death warmed over. Fortunate that I don’t have to go back to work until tomorrow. But Lots of anxiety, sadness, pain, guilt , chills, man this sucks so bad. A couple of times today I have considered running out to the local head shop and getting some. I was able to talk myself out of it. I wish everyone the best of luck and perseverance!(myself included)

6:52 pm March 17th, 2013

I’ve used kratom on & off since I was 16…I’m 23 now and after not using it for 6 months, I’ve blown through 3 pounds of powder in the last 2 months. These withdrawals are awful, nothing like a benzo/oxy addiction though.

My only real symptoms are headache, fatigue, and I have the chills like crazy…been wearing a winter coat inside a 70 degree house and I’m still cold sometimes! It’ll pass though, hang in there everyone.

6:27 pm March 29th, 2013

Just a word of caution to all male Kratom users. Most people don’t know this — even most doctors don’t — but chornic Kratom use will seriously lower your testosterone levels.

Actually chronic use of any opiate will do that, bu this is a Kratom forum so I’m just letting you know.

And if you’re wondering what’s the big deal about a low testosterone level, a lower interest in sex is the least of your problems. Low T will give you depression, low energy, declining bone density and muscle mass — ultimately even reduced height as you move from your 30s into your 40s and above.

Been there, so I know what I’m talking about. Stopping Kratom also allowed me to stop having to take testosterone injections.

Yet another reason to tough it out and quite Kratom (as if any of us needed another reason).

1:29 am April 1st, 2013

Have any of you heard of essential oils helping with addiction withdrawal and then in general depression, anxiety and panic attacks??? I am learning so much about this right now! I have been completely clean of Kratom for almost 7 months now and was still dealing with slight anxiety and depression BUT since I was introduced to essential oils I haven’t felt any anxiety for about 8 days now! I am amazed at how this is helping me and healing me! I just wanted to share… and wondered if any one else knew of this?

2:00 am April 1st, 2013

I began using kratom, extract, in Nov 2012 and I find myself physically dependent. I am so glad to find this site and really need some help and support as I have to get off of this merry go round. I became dependent on benzo’s after a really bad time in my life and got off of them a year ago. I found kratom as an alternative and while it might be to some, I believe that I am just one of those pre disposed to finding myself addicted to anything that changes the way I feel. Both kratom and benzos probably can be taken occasionally by some, I find that one is never enough.
So, here I am again. Facing WD and scared to DEATH. No one knows I have been using kratom and I hope I can look here for support. I am very afraid.

2:51 am April 2nd, 2013

Starting a taper tomorrow. I just cant face another WD. Was on oxycontin in mid 90″s right after it first came onto the market and was one of the first people to get very addicted very fast. WD from that in a week with the help of some Ativan. Too bad I didn’t stop taking the Ativan bc then I developed an addiction to that…until May 2012. You would think I would have learned my lesson.
So, I am tired and I am scared but I just don’t want to go through another WD,
Hope I can taper this…

4:28 pm April 3rd, 2013

Kim, will you expand on what you have learned about essential oils as used for withdrawal support? I am on day 1 with a taper and am not sure i am going about this correctly. I would rather have support of additional methods or maybe i will just CT and take Ativan for a week. My finances simply cannot allow one more order. And I am disgusted with myself. I wish I could be responsibile user but I am an addict. Pure and Simple. Thanks in advance.

5:35 pm April 3rd, 2013

I must say, getting off this is terrible. I’m not a stupid teenager any more, I should have known better.

1:56 pm April 4th, 2013

Today is the third day in a row since the end of my taper and I just feel bad. No energy but I’ve been through worse. We’ll see how it goes, but I don’t see any change from yesterday to today.

2:51 pm April 4th, 2013

Alice, I am with you! I know exactly what you are saying when you say one is never enough. I have found myself addicted to several things over the years… several. The most important thing to do is 1, rely on God… it is Him who holds healing emotionally and physically for you and 2, replace the old habit with something new and good. Like, instead of making of me making my “drink” of Kratom before leaving the house to go do something with my family, I now make an ice water with lemon oil that helps detox and fights depression. And I carry it with me just like I used to carry the Kratom. Does that make sense? Replacing it makes it not so hard and a little easier to say no to.
I have found that essential oils (pure, theraputic grade) have done wonders for me in the area of addiction and anxiety. I would love to share a video talking more about it and a website where you can look testimonies up. It’s amazing! And natural! And God created… only if you are using a pure, ingestable, no chemicals added, organic brand. There are only a few out there.
Feel free to email me more questions and I will send you that video I found in my own research and share with you that site. 🙂
May God cover you with His healing power and grace. I pray you find peace in Him as you are going through this and that you are rewarded back everything the devil has taken away!!!! You can do this and everything is going to be just fine! 🙂 kedwards909ATgmail

3:33 pm April 4th, 2013

Do not beat yourself up Mark. I think it’s easier if we forgive ourselves. I am on day 4 and already looking for excuses to give up. My heart is racing, my whole body hurts and everything is just too much for me. I feel like its going to be like this forever. I know that there is something better beyond today-if I can just get through it.

11:06 pm April 6th, 2013

Hi Alice,

It’s a brave thing to do…. to quit being a slave to the K. There’s something about Kratom that is a blessing and a curse. Personally, I have been clean for 3 months now … and just in the past couple of weeks it’s all I can do to not go get some more. Call it depression … call it whatever. I was on the extracts for a year and spent 10k last year. I can’t say that mentally I’m ok…. I am trying to work it out. I’m sad, despondent most of the time…. I hate life…. and the worst thing of it all is that I am hurting the woman who is the most important thing in the world to me…. my wife. If you need additional support … I could give you my email address – or you can connect via yahoo IM – I’m osxmaniac. Best of luck to you.

1:01 pm April 9th, 2013

day nine. still feel like crap. no energy, can’t really eat, no memory. again, gotta pay the piper eventually and this will pass. never going back here again. dumped 300 grams of maeng da in the toilet the other day. screw this shit.

11:05 pm April 9th, 2013

@ JR
You could try getting hold of some Sceletium tortuosum (kanna)

It’s a non addictive, no side affect, highly effective anti depressant.

It takes around a week or two to kick in, but the effects are amazing.

Have a read up about it?

1:52 am April 11th, 2013


I have heard of it. I will look into it further.
Thanks man.

8:37 pm April 11th, 2013


just emailed my former kratom dealer about kanna. turns out he has it in stock and if it’s anything like his kratom, it’s going to be totally legit. I could use the emotional stability at this point because every little thing feels life or death and makes me want to break down into tears. It’s been 11 days. Hopefully the end is in sight. I don’t miss the kratom at all, but I do miss feeling human.

10:34 pm April 21st, 2013

Can i just echo what has possibly already been added here,

I was addicted to K for about 2 1/2 years. I stopped 6 days ago and i am still feeling the affects of wd. I am also losing sleep due to the rls however it has calmed a bit now, no downside or mood swings but sneezing and getting runny nose and tickle throat. I started occasionally on 1 t spoon of super indo k after reading that it can help stress which i feel affected at work. It did help me get through the day but I did notice i was losing concentration and not taking things in as much as i use to.

I did up my intake but remained on about a 100grams a month and taking about 3-4 tspoons a day depending how I was at work.

I promised myself that one day i would give it up and the opportunity came when my last order did not show up and i have no back up supply. I went/ am going through hell with wd but now know that i dont want to go through it ever again. I am now clean, clear headed and feeling positive with life.

What i dont understand is some of you that come in here and dis other addicts, do we want to hear that you have such great willpower, to moderate your intake? Do you really think we wanted to get addicted in the first place? I have also stopped smoking but started from having the od one or two when having a drink then before i knew i was having one at work and so on until I was on 20 a day. K is the same, you dont realise that you are hooked until its too late and yes some may be taking more than what they should but they have reasons for this which they have explained. Please provide inspiration for these people instead of bringing them down just cause you think your not hooked, try never taking K ever again and see if you can handle it!

Yes its possibly abused and should be taken in moderation but people have there reasons for this and are trying to do something about it so well done to the lot of you!

5:09 pm April 22nd, 2013

How long after quitting does it take before the RLS slows up enough to sleep?

7:46 am April 27th, 2013

Hi Alan, its been over a week nearly two for me and i an still getting the od Rls but its easing off now and starting to get a better sleep now. Try valarien root extract, you get em out any herbal store, they help you sleep and it will go, just keep away from the K :).

7:11 pm April 22nd, 2013

I am fighting kratom withdrawal for about 6 days now. The depression concerns me the most- so bleak of an outlook on my life! I quit a life-time of drinking 7 months ago, along with prescription pain killers. I am trying now to dump the last monkey on my back. I sure hope things improve soon.

1:58 am April 23rd, 2013

Hi is there any one just quitting using. I’m on my second time around and really do not want to go in another treatment center how do I go about this I have disappointed my family for the last time and feel so awful that I would hurt them in this way, What do I do?

12:38 pm April 27th, 2013

Hi Stacey I know it may be hard at first But keep on at it, if you feel down keep drinking water and try herbal remedies that may help keep you calm. I have found that listening to meditation apps also help. You will have ups and downs but the ups will start to become more than the downs, just try and be positive and when you feel down, go do something instead to take your mind off it.

It will get better as long as you want to do it. Just remember the reasons why you wanted to give it up in the first place, mine was the money and also my family and my new born daughter 🙂

4:44 am April 25th, 2013

Just penned a reply and somehow “lost” it. So sorry. Will reply with my experience tomorrow as it is late. See Kim’s April 4 reply to me. It is comforting and hopeful. More to come later. You can do this.

3:26 pm April 29th, 2013

Took eighteen days for the withdrawals to be completely gone for me, and I was only using maeng da leaf, not an extract. Not nearly as debilitating as heroin withdrawals, but still a day in day out horror show for almost three weeks.

I needed amphetamines to have the energy to work, benzos and valerian to sleep (and sometimes that just wouldn’t do it either).

Now that it’s finally all out of my system, I can say that I have had no craving for the stuff, but I was really done with it when I quit so I didn’t expect to.

I wasn’t expecting to be as emotionally unavailable as I was throughout the whole process. I couldn’t see anything past the withdrawals but at the same time would have serious moments of utter despair concerning life and my relationship, but couldn’t even figure out the feelings because of the withdrawal.

Getting off that shit was a bumpier ride than I really expected, but I am so glad that it’s over with.

If you want to quit, rather than just want to want to quit, you can do this, especially if you’ve kicked any serious opiates before.

Hank S
9:29 am May 1st, 2013

I used kratom for four months andI am beginning quitting Kratom. I am on my fifth day. I had no idea what I was in for. I quit cold turkey after working my way up to 2-3 grams a day. I was also using Kava Kava and quitting that also. I experienced, on day one chills, sweating, insomnia, anxiety and RLS. I only had a few hours sleep, but the need to walk around my house for hours drove me mad. I had an appointment the next day with my doctor and she didn’t have any Idea what kratom was. She prescribed me an SSRI and after I took it my nightmare started. Now I don’t know if this was a conflict with the Kratom or just a coincidence, I took the SSRI on the second day and it seemed to intensify the effect of the withdrawl. I stopped and went back to the doctor, she prescribed a benz for the panic attacks and a non buprin for the panic also, but long term. Today being my fifth day, I still have the RLS and I am only sleeping for about an hour at a time for a total of maybe four hours through the day. I did have some kava left on the first day and it helped alot. I would suggest someone to try it to soften the withdrawl, However, that is addictive also but it may be of some use. I have spent time walking around malls and trying to stay busy to get the energy out of my legs. I am still not able to lay down and rest, I’ll try to post my progress.

8:56 pm May 1st, 2013

I’m going to look into this kanna. Sounds promising. Even though K has been very successful in keeping me away from alcohol, I’m just done. You all know that feeling. I just want to lead a natural life. Anyway, I’ll let everyone know my findings.

Hank S
10:48 am May 3rd, 2013

Well this is an update.

I am on my sixth day of recovery after four months of use and there are some improvements to report. Frist the RLS has minimized and I am able to lie down and rest. There is some movement but I am able to fall asleep for a longer time. (about 6 hours today) Because of the Klonopin and Buspirone, which I believe are kicking in well, I am feeling much better with any anxiety or panic attacks of withdraw. I would suggest that you visit the doctor and insist on some type of benzodiazepine to get through the tough times. I’ve spent time working the nervous energy off that seems to be a big part of the first few days. I would window shop at every store and get a milk shake with some espresso. The espresso gave me a little buzz which was welcomed. Also, I’ve taken some OTC sleeping pills and melatonin before bed time to help. The first few days were hard, but I am glad that I hung in there. You have to get out and distract yourself during that period or you will shut in and just focus on your withdraw. I know I have a way to go, but I can see the light at the end of the tunnel now. I’ll report later.

Dan Booth
4:46 am May 7th, 2013

Hi, off and on kratom for the last 2 years. Only 4mg twice daily most of the time. I currently have over a month clean from kratom. I enjoyed kratom but found after a while I was becoming addicted. For me getting off kratom was the easiest tapering down some before stopping. I would go from twice a day to once and day and then after a week or so I would then go to every other day. After a few weeks of tapering like this its pretty easy to stop. The hardest part is not ordering any more kratom. I went through this about 4 times in a year and finally made it more than a month without ordering more =)

It can be done and without too much suffering. Just drop down your dosage before totally stopping…

Hank S
6:00 am May 9th, 2013

This is an update after 12 days of cold turkey

I have some better news to report. I am sleeping regular now and the restless legs have stopped. (RLS stopped on the 6th day) I must admit, I am confronting the issues that I tried to escape by taking kratom in the frist place and this has caused some depression and serious reflection. However, at least I can meet them head on and not be distracted leaving unfinished business in my life. Oh yea, the bowel movements, which were painful and required laxitives and stool softners, are normal now. That alone is a big payoff. My plan of action at this point is to countinue with the Buspirone and maybe discuss a SSRI with my doctor later. So I will handle my depression with meds rather than Kratom. Kratom was a disaster for me and I’m glad that the trying first days of cold turkey are over. It was worth it and I suggest that everyone just hang in there. Read my earlier posts on how to handle those days. I doubt we had any idea this would happen with Kratom. Kratom? No thanks.

3:04 pm May 9th, 2013

Have been on Kratom on /off for 1-1/2 year. Tired of hassle w/ toss and wash, so simplified things by going w/ Full Spectrum Tincture (This is the part of the movie where they play the foreboding music to foreshadow the coming train wreck.)

In short time, worked up to dosing 20 drops during day, and 5 drops at bed to sleep thru the night. Took stock of situation after a moment of clarity, that I no longer felt the energy that flowed through me when I first engaged this botanical Siren.

I decided to disengage abruptly. Left it at my office (I’m General Contractor and have a small office by myself) leaving for the weekend and figured I’d ride out the weekend and be ready to go come Monday.

I did not dose before leaving Friday PM. Needless to say about 2 AM, the train came off the tracks. Left the bedroom (as to not wake the wife) and spent the rest of the night in the guest room. The chills, sweats and brain freak began in earnest. At 7 AM left note for wife (some BS about checking on a job) and drove directly to the loving arms of my Enchantress. After dosing, sat in chair waiting for the near instant relief that would come, and mulling over the horror of realizing the f***ing Servant had become the Master.

Quick history: Never had any previous opiate addiction, but always enjoyed the occasional Narco script that came with dental work or whatever. Had discovered Kratom after deciding to stop drinking and had read that Kratom was a great ally to have during initial cessation of alcohol ( This proved to be utterly true, stopped six months ago a never looked back).

Now that the worm had turned, I immediately started investigating how I was going to solve this mess. Found BL during research and read every thread about Kratom WD. After a week, devised this plan:

Found a base line dose, that I took every six hours, that kept me level. Ended up starting around eight drops per dose. Every four days lowered dose by one drop. Got down to one drop, every six hours. Then took the extra step of diluting in water in a measured container, to where I actually was dosing ½, then ¼ drop every six hrs. Then jumped one weekend.

During my taper, the initial drop in each dose would cause minor WD symptoms for a couple days, but nothing even CLOSE to cold turkey. Would take Phenibut for a couple days and Zolpidem @ night with some Benadryl for sleep.

The jump weekend, even at that low of dose, raised the intensity, but nowhere near some of the stories read here. Couple of weeks later, feel fine. Lucky I guess, there was no overwhelming mental fallout.

In conclusion: This plan definitely worked for me. It goes without saying, you have to mentally prepare yourself for the drawn out taper schedule, and if you have a weak moment and go off the dose schedule, you’re just adding time to your sentence.

Went to office following week and threw that wretched bitch into the garbage. And so my love affair ended. Good f***ing riddance.


11:58 pm May 22nd, 2013

Well after being off of it for a good 3 months … I’m back in. I like the stuff way to much … but it’s a struggle because I really want to be done with it. There’s just too much inner turmoil, depression, sadness ….
I am not taking any extracts. I have no physical dependence at this time as I can go two or three days with nothing. Even though you think you got it licked, that little voice in your head may never go away.

5:08 pm May 26th, 2013

I am seriously dependent on the full spec tincture and the tapering schedule Steve describes seems to make the most sense for me. The key is wanting to quit rather than waning to want to quit… Really tired of this physically emotionally and financially. So tired of it…

Hank S
2:03 pm May 28th, 2013

Those of you who are going into a relapse or wanting to quit;.I really suggest you follow through with a visit to your doctor and a support group. I suggest you try anti depressants and an exercise routine. This has helped me from wanting to relapse and I actually dread the thought of taking kratom again. It is tempting, but thinking of going through the withdraw and the other problems I noted in previous posts keep me from it I don’t want to deal with the cost, the screwed up bowels, the headaches, the nausea, staying up all night, the stress of getting more, the stress of knowing I need to stop and quitting all over again, hiding out on kratom, and all of the other BS that goes with using kratom period.You have to get at the reason why there is a need to distract yourself and attack it from that point.I believe it is worth getting the tools in order to stop. You really don’t need kratom.

2:35 pm May 28th, 2013

Friends, if you are serious about quitting and getting through the withdrawals, depression, and anxiety, there is HOPE! You can read my story back in Sept 2012. (and April 2013) I was addicted to extracts for over 8 months and had no clue how back off I was. I struggled for months. In Feb of this year I was introduced to pure, therapeutic grade essential oils and my life has been changed! They have taken the anxiety almost completely away (99.5%) and I have no more cravings for Kratom at all!

9:24 pm May 28th, 2013

Now, I know you are all very familiar with the whole WD thing and the addiction potentials of this stuff, but for this post, I’m gonna concentrate on the good side 🙂

Ok, so after a 3 month break, I also decided to start taking Kratom again.

The reasons for me are probably not the right ones, but I feel so much better for being back on the stuff.

You’ll have probably read my previous posts about the WDs and how much better I felt after quitting, which was true.

But after the first couple of months off the stuff, my energy levels crashed and I was starting to sink into somewhat of a depression.

I think it has alot to do with two things.
First, my job working in a garden centre/plant nursery was in a bad way because of the very cold, long and snowy winter, which meant my hours had been cut to 3 days per week and 6 hours per day.
Secondly, the winter was the worst I’ve ever known and it was just so depressing to have to wake up to bitter cold and grey skies every day for months and months and months, I supposed I was suffering from S.A.D. (season.affected.disorder)? I know many people in the UK were very down during this winter from hell:-(

So, I decided to ‘perk’ myself back up and get my self motivated again to work and I began taking Kratom again.

My favourite strain has always been ‘Green Malay’ as it’s the strongest pure powdered leaf form and also the best value and it has a nice balanced effect between euphoric and energiser.

I started at 3.5 grams first thing before work and then 2 grams later in the day to top up and although I have increased the dose, it’s more to do with wanting to rather than needing to and I truly mean that.

So now I’m on 6g before work and 6g when I get home to relax, so compared to the up to 45 grams per day before, I think I’m doing rather well 🙂

The best thing for me is that I’m now able to do an entire days work, which is both mentally and physically draining, alot more easily and enjoyably too.
When I was off Kratom, the days were EXTREMELY long and I just couldn’t get my body’s energy levels up enough to be able to enjoy them, even in a job which I love dearly.

I am watching myself like a hawk however and I have had the occasional urge to dose before bedtime, but I tried it once and found that I actually sleep better without it.

In the mornings I find that I can feel a very minor WD which before would have sent me straight for my stash, but now, if I ignore it long enough to have a sit down and a cup of tea, it disappears with only the lack of energy showing up withdrawal wise.

I did run out for 4 days a weeks ago, but I didn’t go into a panic and I didn’t feel like I couldn’t live without it, it was more like thinking “awwww, I suppose I’ll just have to wait :-)”.

The second night after stopping, I was fully prepared for all the symptoms that WDs could throw at me, and yet I didn’t miss an ounce of sleep the whole time!! 😀

The only symptoms I got from the WDs, was a runny nose and sporadic sneezing……they were the least I’ve ever had.

Now, I can only conclude that atm, my Kratom intake is acceptable for me and that, if I keep it moderate, then there’s really no need for me to ‘fear’ having to stop.

I did feel guilty for a couple of days after I’d started again, but I refuse to be a slave to guilt, life is too short.
I think now that I’ve been through what I’ve been through, I know what to look out for and how to control myself better.
Perhaps for me, it was the only way I could have learnt?

You know what they say? “some folk head the warning signs and some folk ignore them, pee on the electric fence and find out fro themselves” ………I’m one of the latter 😀

And for all you guys suffering out there, please do what is best for you and if you’re quitting, then good luck with that, we do forget what it is like in the real world if you’ve been in ‘Kratomland’ for a year or so, but just don’t feel guilty. 🙂

9:30 pm May 28th, 2013

@ sarah.

If you need to talk about how to stop, I’m a good listener? 🙂

I’ve quit the stuff more times than I care to mention, but I always go when I want to.
I know probably every single aspect of WD’s and the addiction so can give you some advice and help you through if you decide to go cold turkey?

You are not alone matey 🙂

Hank S
9:16 am May 29th, 2013

A quick and important note. I would advise NOT taking an SSRI, such as prozac, celexa and citaopram, when stopping kratom. I would suggest waiting at least two weeks. My experience on celexa or citapram the day after quitting just increased the withdraw. I believe Kratom and an SSRI will yeild serotonin syndrome. I think I experienced this and I was only relieved by a benzodiazepine. Buspirone did not seem to react at all and I would suggest that for panic attacks and depression.

I am now taking celexa and it does seem to work for me.Even on the first day. The cost for post kratom generics? About eight dollars a month.

2:56 pm June 17th, 2013

I know I haven’t posted on here for quiet some time but I have kept up with every single post… Most of us have a similar story….What I’m trying to figure out is why did I even consider this herb… It seemed to be a mission at the time I was searching my ass off for what,, hell at the time I had no clue but day after day I was looking for a substance that was easy to get and had effects…Boom after trying all sorts of stuff I finally came across this herb (Kratom)..I wish I could figure this part out maybe it will help me and others find the answers to why we were even seeking this out…Pain oh yes that might be a different story and has nothing to do with me doing this herb I was fine no pain what so ever,,,but still I searched it out hell I wasn’t looking for just this herb anything and everything it just happened to be the kratom…My past I don’t think has anything to do with it and no I didn’t have the best past and was homeless by the age of 13,,,but I have no regrets what so ever…I just feel the need to be under the influence of something and I’m banging my head up against the wall trying to figure it out…This is the blank the thing that is keeping me caged and I want the hell out….Thanks for listening and please post your thoughts.

7:34 pm June 20th, 2013

A lot of good comments here. I am off K for about 3 weeks with a relapse of an ounce spread over a week ending 7 days ago. I did a Taper method bringing down doses every 3 days. This is the best taper since on the 3rd day your body gets used to the less amount so you basically have a normal day every 3 days, which really helps when you get down.
I went from probably about an ounce a day to 1/2 teaspoon a day at the end before cutting off, and the W/d were nothing then more than annoyance and on and off sleeping for 2-3 day.

I have some comments on stopping and also why K can fool you over time.

First, K basically makes you numb socially. Near the end I would find myself remembering how I would react to situations “Before K” and respond that way. Basically I was a shell just trying to act normal, while inside I was thinking how i could get my next fix in without anyone seeing (mostly when at events). I knew i was neglecting friends and my wife, but was detached and kept telling myself I would stop and get my life together then. Basically, it became a situation where I became so detached it was like looking at myself from outside of my body and trying to look normal.
Anyway, I am still lethargic and cloudy headed, but no longer getting the daily urge at least. We convince ourselves of anything when addicted. I remember my friend who stopped smoking cigs for a month after 20 years. His comment, this was easier than I thought. 3 days later he was back and that was 2 years ago. This is probably why support groups help since we can convince ourselves of anything.
Finally , here are my tips for anyone in the future, they are well researched, time tested, and you really cannot go wrong:
Taper if you can, bringing dosage down every 3 days. 3 days is the key!! Once you get down to say 1 teaspoon twice a days, then you can can do 1 or 2 days to finish. The W/d is must less, but some people cannot control themselves and need to do C/T. Here is a rule: You should never feel good when tapering, just no more withdrawal about an hour after. If you feel good you did too much and are not tapering!
Exercise! I mean it! Just walk at the minimum, Get some sun. It sucks getting out but you will feel better after 5-10 minutes and for a while after exercising. It also helps accelarte getting the toxins out. If you can do any strength training I recommends as well since that will give you more endorphins
Hot baths or showers. When in W/d you will get the anxiety and “creepy skin” feelings. Having your body surrounded give your nerves something to do and you will feel much better. It is also great right before going to bed so you can get a little sleep.
Sleep and intercourse: If you are tossing and turning for more than 20 min just get up, walk around the house, Masturbate (or have intercourse if partner and you willing) and try again. You will find that although libido goes down while on K, when in W/D it is the exact opposite.
Vitamins: Take B vitamin complexes twice a day at min. These will calm your nerves greatly!
5-HTP: this is a great relaxer, mood lifter, and sleep aid. Buy it, take double does first few days.
Loperamine (Imodium): for Diarrhea and in higher doses to help with RLS. Basically this hit some of your receptors so reduces w/d., just don’t overdo it. I stayed away mostly and just wiped a lot 
Magnesium: Double dose will help with RLS. Never went a night without it.
Weed: Yea it helps. If nothing else it gets your mind off things for a few hours which is like escaping prison for a while.
I never did Valerian, melatonin since those can be addicting as well. Going to try Kanna and Kava though after reading all of this.
Just Remember, you are your own worst enemy, you WILL try to convince your self to go back. You will come up with great reasons: need energy, wasn’t so bad, depressed, can quit again anytime, just one little bad won’t hurt for a reward, etc. Just remember what you went though and how you felt before you quit. Good luck!

12:26 am August 19th, 2013

You made a comment in the middle of your post that hit home with me. I am paraphrasing but it was something like “when tapering if you feel good, you are taking too much” Bingo for me.
I am trying to taper as it is a must health (and bank account) wise but I always take just enough to feel good. Very good advise and thank you for it. Good luck everyone. Whoever said if you ate prone to addiction, as I , Kratom is not something to take lightly. I wish I could take it responsibly but I cannot. And the thought of cold turkey scares me to death even though I know it is not in the class with hard drugs Again, good luck.

tj hunter
3:05 am June 29th, 2013

Well I know places that are doing a lot of people a favor getting them off real drugs that doctors give patients. Kratom is natural and much better than any pharma drugs doctors push patients to get addicted. With kratom you can easily get off of it in 1-2 days. Alcohol and tobacco are much worst. another BS propaganda to take down this beautiful herb

8:17 pm July 1st, 2013

When used responsibly it can be a great thing. If you are prone to addiction, it will be like any other drug. Hard to quit. I’ve been off a month now and am still not doing well. I’ve been to the emergency room three times with kidney and blood pressure problems ( don’t worry, I did not expose the Kratom) and although it is a little better each day, it is still a long road. I cry alot and I run a low grade fever almost continually. Aches and pains, depression-the only reason I continue is because I’ve come this far. You have to feed off of yesterday to last until tomorrow…….

6:13 am July 6th, 2013

Kratom is a godsend for me. Because it’s effect has a mild euphoria, one that wants yourself to take it when you don’t need to take it, that’s when you abuse it if you give in to tempation. It has medicinal qualities, which is to say I take it for occasional headaches that aspirin doesn’t cure, or mild bouts of depression. But, if I took it just to get high, I’d be an addict, so you have to take it with discipline. It’s not Kratom’s fault, it’s your fault. As addictive drugs go, it’s nothing like heroin or other hard narcotics, and Kratom doesn’t deserve to be demonized. People should only take kratom for it’s medicinal qualities.

Take kratom responsibly, and it has very few ill effects, not any for me, anyway, and I’ve been taking it for about a year, now, and it’s cheap.

Also, it’s not a drug for people with addictive personalities, period. Don’t blame the drug, because this drug has a medicinal value and people with addictive personalities are ruining it for those of us who take it responsibly.

4:20 am July 9th, 2013

i’ve found that during periods of near insomnia, where i would sleep for maybe an hour and then wake up with restlessness, a very small exercise routine helped me fall back asleep. my restlessness centered in my back and shoulders, not my legs, so for me i would do 30 push-ups, then get back in bed. once my heart settled back to a normal resting rate i would sleep for a bit longer.

3:01 pm July 21st, 2013

I have used kratom for the past 6 months to much success. You just have to be able to control kratom and not let kratom control you. I used up to 3 times daily in doses of 3 to 4 grams powder and in doses of 8 grams in tea. I wanted to stop just to prove to myself that I could. I have been off for 2 weeks and stopping was EASY. I just tapered by .5 grams each day and then I diminished my frequency to once a day from 3 times per day. I reduced it to a dosage of 1 gram. Then I stopped. All I got was a very very weak runny nose for a few hours and then I got ONE loose bowel movement and that was it. I have been very happy for two weeks now and have not ONE problem whatsoever. The issue here is how you were BEFORE you started the kratom, and how YOU were doing before YOU started. All these deep seeded issues posted here are about the POSTER and NOT about Kratom. I just wanted to point that out. To all you having huge issues, your problems lie within you, and not Kratom. It is that simple and people need to understand that. So stop blaming kratom and if you have issues, DO NOT use kratom to begin with as it only exacerbates them when you quit. On the other hand,if you are stable and want something to enhance your life, go ahead and try it as it is awesome. Just control kratom and don’t let kratom control you.

Hank S
2:42 am September 25th, 2013

I am a little disappointed to read about some taking Kratom lightly. I have been off of kratom four months. Because of the terrible withdrawals, I don’t want to go back. There are serious repercussions if you take kratom and anyone should consider them if you begin kratom. Serious constipation, the addiction, the cost, nausea and the nightmare withdrawl. It was easier to get off of meth than kratom. If you can control yourself, good. But I doubt most can and I think some of you are lying to yourselves about control. I suggest most stay away from it.

1:24 pm October 8th, 2013

The Kratom withdrawal is no joke. I’ve been through it three times now and I’m currently suffering (the third time). If used, it really should only be for two weeks at a time then quit…. we should be enough time to take it for pain, withdrawal from something else, anti-depressant ….etc. The problem, at least for me, is the lure to keep on taking it and to keep on wanting that euphoria. Then before I know it, I’m locked in and dosing regularly. Head shop’s begin to know you and the habit in ON. A year later and down 8k, and living as an imposter, as no one but me and God know about my slavery to the plant, I have decided to quit for good. I will never take it again. That is a line I will not cross. I sympathize with anyone on this blog that is suffering. I couldn’t pull myself out of the cycle, I needed a change … something that would trump my lack of self will to just quit and suffer again. I had a business trip coming up and I planned to really do it this time. I wanted to really just get away, from the cycle and from the plant. Sure I could find it in the city that I traveled to. But I had to resist that temptation. Today is day three. I have tossed and turned the last two nights. I was taking anywhere from 20 to 30 grams of leaf per day. I didn’t take any extracts for the past 6 months which is how long I’ve been on it. It is a little less intense then my last WD, but it’s still no fun. I was actually on a plane jonesing while cramped up in a window seat for a 3.5 hour flight. I knew that this trip was my ticket out. To suffer and break the cycle and to stop being an imposter. To also renew my relationship with God. I wish you all the best of luck.

5:40 am October 11th, 2013

I have just spent the last 3 hours reading the posts on this blog hoping it would give me the courage to get off kratom. Not only am I encouraged but I am so moved by everyone’s story and will to quit. My story begins about 5 weeks ago when doing some online research to help my daughter through opiate withdrawal. I read about the kratom plant and its success in alleviating most of the pain and discomfort of withdrawing from opiates. I did quite a bit of research and was very aware of kratom’s addictive nature. And with that knowledge I bought some powder online feeling positive that it was going to help my daughter through her 2 year addiction to opiates. When the kratom arrived 2 days later we were both excited to start the detox process. My daughter started taking around 4 grams at a time as needed. It was working for her and she was very responsible to only take the kratom when the withdrawal symptom were at the unbearable point. Kratom got my daughter through her withdrawal from opiates and without her becoming dependent on it. So here is the issue. After all the research and blogs I read, I became curious and decided I would try kratom. The only way I have ever taken kratom was by swallowing the powder with a glass of ice tea. Immediately after taking 3 grams of Bali, I felt this light headed calmness coupled with an extraordinary burst of energy. Wow I was in heaven. That was 5 weeks ago. Still knowing it had the potential for dependency I kept taking it daily. I loved having the added energy and the feeling of relaxed motivation. Continuing with the Bali powder I was doing around 20 grams a day for a month. At this point I wouldn’t say I was addicted but for the following week 5, I was dosing with the ultra enhanced indo extract. My thinking was since it is much more potent than the Bali powder, I wouldn’t have to do as much. And I was right. It took very little extract to reach and exceed that wonderful euphoric feeling. I have been diagnosed with chronic depression so to feel the aliveness from kratom was even more exhilarating to me than probably most users. So it took me a few days to realize how I needed it to continue to feel great hence kratom addiction. Now I am noticing how hard it is to get out of bed in the morning, how miserable I feel, how unmotivated I am, how achy and nauseated my body is…..until I get my dose of kratom. It has only been 5 weeks but I know my body is addicted because I am having withdrawal symptoms. My plan is to stop taking the kratom cold turkey. I have 4 straight days off and am hoping since I have only been taking kratom for 5 weeks, that I should be through the worst of my physical withdrawal symptoms by then. Reading this blog has helped me learn ways to get me through this as best as possible. Plus reading people’s withdrawal journeys has given me the strength to know I can do this. Thank you for sharing your stories. I have never misused substances before and I don’t want to be dependent on them. I really do feel my quality of life has suffered even in this short amount of time. Thank you all and please pray for me quick recovery.

1:26 pm October 12th, 2013

Seriously…I hate to say this but this “legal” drug in the US is not the best or safest choice for you. Anyone who thinks it’s safe…please educate yourself and look up how safe it has been in other countries, outside of our good ol USA (who “protects”it’s peeps). Don’t be an “ignoramus” STUDY UP or be STUPID…it’s your brain! Trust me when I tell you this about Kratom…it deludes you, it lies to you, it robs your family from you, it isolates you, it will cause your dreams and hopes for your future to all go away, you will steal and tell lies for it, you will long for your days when you weren’t addicted to it…when your life was simple…when you slept at night peacefully, it will cause you to feel so shitty about yourself…you will want to die. Please don’t attack me on here…I’m just someone who is a recovering addict and who’s familiar with addiction and particularly this substance and addiction…and I love you all on here…praying for each of you that you will find a way out of this… and I’m just hoping…if possible, to save you from the horrible things I’ve had to endure from this “legal” drug! It’s been a nightmare!!! I hope the US Gov BANS THE CRAP OUT OF THIS… God bless you “Dealers” out there monitering this site bc you know your days are short! I’m praying for you too that you will have “everything” I could ever hope or dream for and that God will send you his richest blessings!!

3:18 pm October 12th, 2013

AWESOME TUNE ABOUT KRATOM…and it’s realities:

1:12 pm October 17th, 2013

i started using 400 pills 2x3times a day.
stopped all of a sudden
now chestpain and and difficulty breathing
could it be possible

2:48 am October 18th, 2013

I ran across this blog when I first decided to quit Kratom. I wanted to know what to expect. I originally began taking Kratom a little over a year and a half ago to get off of vicodin (which I’d been using for about 2 years. The Kratom worked great. My plan was to use it for the withdrawls and then stop the Kratom. However, that didn’t happen. I found that the I really liked Kratom and it was legal. I thought I had found something that I could use that was harmless. Unfortunately I was very wrong. I should have researched it further but didn’t. I think I really didn’t want to know the truth. Anyway, I found myself spending as much money on Kratom as I did for Vicodin. This last August it all came to a head. I was always broke at the end of the month and didn’t have money to buy more Kratom. I am a teacher and my district pays us for the months of July, August, and September. I was going to be paid again until the 1st of October. I ended up borrowing money from my brother to pay bills for September. However, of course I used a big portion of that money to buy more Kratom. On September 14th I took my last Kratom capsule. Once again I was broke and sick and tired of being a slave to this drug. I read as much as I could online about the withdrawls so I could prepare myself. It really was hell for the first 3 weeks. In addition to all this, my mom had died August 22nd so I was dealing with her death unmedicated. She and my father had left my siblings and I money in a Trust which we would be getting in a few months. I was sick at the idea of spending any of the money they left me on Kratom. There was no way I wanted to do that. I felt like it would be dishonoring their memory. For the first two weeks I struggled with sleepless nights and then felt overwhelming anxiety and despair in the morning when I would have to get up and go to my school and teach. My emotions were all over the place. I cried at the drop of a hat and did not feel any joy at all. It was so depressing, and there were a couple of times that I wanted to cave and go buy Kratom, but I shared those feelings with friends that I had told about my situation. They were encouraging and helped me stay focused. Finally, somewhere between the 2nd and 3rd week, I started to feel a little bit of happiness and joy here and there. It wasn’t consistent, but it was better then the despair I had been constantly feeling. Then, after the 3rd week sometime, my mood and feelings began to stabilize. I was actually feeling normal again. It’s been 33 days since I quit and I can tell that I am finally coming out of my depression. I’ve felt really good the past three days with only fleeting periods of anxiety and depression. Right now, at this very moment, I feel great. I know it will take sometime before I am 100%, but at least I am making progress. I took Kratom for a long time and it will be awhile before I build up my endorphins to their normal levels. I wanted to post this to let people know that there is light at the end of the dark tunnel. It does get better. I also want to thank everyone who posted their experiences on this blog becaue it helped give me the courage to finally quit Kratom. I am very grateful to you all. I wish everyone that wants to quit, the best of luck and I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers. Take care.

3:37 am October 19th, 2013

There’s people running ’round loose
In the world
Ain’t got nothing better to do
Than make a meal of some
Bright eyed kid
You need someone looking after you
(Tom Petty/Stevie Nicks)

9:25 pm October 22nd, 2013

I ran across a facebook page kratom addiction community I think it might be good to take a look. They respond and try to help you.. Everybody seems to need a helping hand and this might just be what you need.. Take care you all…

11:33 pm October 24th, 2013

As I reported recently, I would never do K again. I went 17 days without. I had a trigger over this past weekend – and with the K always seemingly calling my name, I cratered. I went through 30 grams over the course of 2 days. Yesterday I started the day with the intention of starting fresh and clean. I started to feel some minor WDs and wrestled with whether to go or not go get some more. It’s always readily available at a local head shop. I prayed and stuck to my guns. After I got home from work without any K, it felt like such a victory. I literally felt high just from the fact that I had not cratered/slipped. Looking back, had I gone and gotten more, I probably would have been back into the hooks of the K claws. I woke up this morning feeling so victorious!!! Even more so than I did after 17 days … or even the 3 months off of it earlier this year. For those that are suffering, stick to your guns! The high that you will feel from overcoming this will far exceed the high that you get from Kratom – which really is that good after your tolerance has gone through the roof. Save your money and get high on life!!

10:38 pm October 26th, 2013

Good job JR! It’s tough but so worth it. I am on day 41 now. I don’t have the cravings like I did the first 3 weeks. Those weeks were literally hell for me. The physical w/dswere as bad as I had read about.. Not to mention the depression and feeling of despair that went along with it. Now I only seem to get a fleeting thought or small craving when I feel upset or frustrated. It is getting easier everyday. It feels good to finally start having my life back..

1:51 am November 1st, 2013

Just wanted to express my experience on kratom. I started doing research on kratom because I was looking for something to help alleviate withdrawing from subutex which I was on for about 6 months. I got up to 12mgs a day and reduced down to 2mgs which of course made me feel horrible so I upped my dose to 6mgs a day. I was going to a clinic so decreasing my dose on subs were totally my idea, going to a clinic they stop you at 2mgs saying that was the lowest dose they had to offer. I heard the withdrawals from that was horrible and was something I was not looking forward too as we all do and mostly is the reason we relapse if you have struggled with opiate addiction like myself. Being at a clinic I realized that they mostly care about the money they receive. After speaking with the nurse she actually discouraged me to quit at 6mgs and reminded me how bad it was when I was at 2mgs and my withdrawals would be unbearable. It was my decision because again I was tired of the daily dosing and being dependent on this drug. Obviously the longer you are on it the harder it is to kick. Regardless it being only a partial agonist, different from methadone as its a full agonist and much much harder to kick. Well that’s where the kratom came in to play. I stopped the subs on a Saturday and ordered the maeng da supreme 56 capsules. After finishing that, I found the uei kratom and ordered 100 capsules and it came in the next day at 10:30am. I was starting to feel horrible withdrawals from the subs so I immediately started the uei at 2 grams which was about 6 capsules. Needless to say I had 100 pills gone in probably less than 2 weeks. Which meant I was probably on kratom alltogether about 3 weeks I think. The withdrawals came on strong even though it has been almost 3 weeks off the subs I knew it was the kratom making me feel horrible or lack of kratom at this point. Now withdrawals I know how bad they are with opiate use but with taking the uei it was pure hectic. The main thing was obviously the RLS and me feeling like I wanted to jump out of my skin is the best way I can describe it. It moved all over my body in my arms which lead to insomnia because I was unable to get comfortable. I would get outta bed lay on the floor and just rock back in forth. I went from the bed to the floor to the bathroom and went back in forth until the morning finally came. I knew I couldn’t deal with this so I got 4 20 mgs of of and would half that and take it once in the morning and the other half at night. It had been a long time since I had taking that but I must say if it weren’t for that taking it 3 days in a row I don’t know how I would’ve been able to get through the horrible withdrawals from the kratom. I also am prescribed 2mgs of klonopin Which I don’t take on a regular basis. It’s never been my drug of choice. I didn’t use that while on kratom but definitely needed that along with the few opiates I had purchased just for use of the three days. I must say that withdrawals from the kratom I used was far more worse than any other withdrawal I have ever experienced in my life. My girlfriend has like 256 capsules of the bali supreme and I must say I have NO desire to use kratom anymore. My only reason in using the kratom was to help me get off the subs which worked great. I just over did it with the high usage of the uei. My girlfriend hardly uses the kratom and has never been a problem for her I see it I the fridge and remember what I went through and have no desire to use it. I feel it served its purpose for me and truely was a godsend. I hope that maybe my experience with the kratom will shed some light to others going through the same thing. Kratom is great if not abused and does great for someone looking to kick an opiate habit. You just have to use responsibly and not overdo it like I did with the uei.

12:17 am November 4th, 2013

First of all, you all have taken way too much Kratom and have taken it daily! It plainly states to not use it daily and to not use high dosages. Anything can become addictive. Do you drink coffee? Well Kratom is a strain from the coffee tree. I have used Kratom at 2grams maybe every 3 days. Not one of these issues have come up with me when I decided to not have any for a week or so. Please as with anything (and believe me I have had worse things in my life to withdrawal from) Kratom is nothing. Caffeine took me 2 months to withdrawal from and had a headache I could not get rid of. Kratom has helped me ween off of valium where I was dependent on it 10mg 2x a day now to mayb 1 10mg a week. Everything is addictive in its own way, even OTC stuff (anything from sleeping pills to stackers). Wake up people.

9:36 pm November 6th, 2013

Thanks for your info, I was taking Kratom for pain, a friend gave me a bag of it, worked great but I did not know this was addictive. I wish I would have researched a bit, I am going to see if my Dr. will give me a small prescription of valium.

Kind Regards,

7:05 pm November 18th, 2013

This is the first time I’ve posted in a long while. I decided it was finally time to make the jump off. Long story short this is the third time I’ve made the leap. First time was off extract and the second time was off whole leaf. The third time (now) was a combination of the both. I guess what was holding me back for so long this time is the crushing depression that laid me out flat the second time. One night not to long ago I started thinking about how much money would be going to my savings if I wasn’t doing this. My job pays well so it was never about the cost. It was what so many of us complain about. Is the fedex guy/girl going to make it on time? Having to plan my meals so I’ll get the maximum effect. And knowing deep down you could of helped someone very close to you in the time of need if you would of had that extra money.

Day 1:

So I had my last bit Friday night. I woke up feeling exactly like I thought I would. Muscle aches, runny nose, sneezing, and tired. Hard to do just a simple task. One thing I did different this time was I had a supply of kava kava and Klonopine that I only took as needed especially at night. The night was the worst. I never thrashed around my bed so hard but with the Klonopine I finally feel asleep around 2am and stayed asleep.

Day 2:

Day 2 was easier than I expected. I drank kava in the morning then took a Klonopine around noon and was functional for the most part with naps here and there. No RLS.

Day 3:

I actually went to work today after sleeping all night with the help of Klonopine. I was extremely tired but made it and felt a little better after I got my blood flowing. My job requires a lot of physical activity. I am starting to feel the mental addiction of the k with just a slight physical want. But the kava shuts that down really quick. Some chills but not like day one. Some depression is kicking in but I’m counteracting that with 5HTP and the kava. You can get kava kava online. I feel this time, with the help and listening to you all this will be easier then it has in the past.

Final Thoughts:

Ana, this is a help forum. Please don’t take this as a personal attack but it is not our business to dictate the life of someone else. They’re thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people who enjoy this miracle plant as it’s suppose to. We don’t make shopping illegal, we don’t make drinking alcohol illegal and we have no right to making something illegal that helps thousands off the worst of the worst of drugs or people who simply enjoy it once or twice a week. The vendor I get t from clearly states not to use everyday but once a week at the most. It is the only substance that I have found that alleviates pain, depression, ad anxiety and I hope someday I can enjoy it on a bi monthly basis but that’s not until I have not had any in my system for at least a month. Good luck everyone. Remember the kava kava and the Klonopine (any benzo besides Xanax). I’m with you and feel your pain but also feel your relief.

2:46 pm November 22nd, 2013

@ Austin Why not Xanax Is their a reason please explain.. How much Kava were you taking did you eat it or make tea? I’m going to rid this stuff soon just need some more info thanks 🙂

Hank S
7:28 pm November 27th, 2013

As Austin suggested, Kava Kava can be a great help with the quitting process. I used it in my first week and it helped with the body issues. You can get the extract pills at most health food stores. I usually take double the dose recommended on the box. But use with caution. Kava is a muscle relaxer that will give euphoria at high doses.

9:11 pm December 2nd, 2013

@B.J. Sorry for the late response. I tried to reply but it kept on saying that I was spam so I’ll try it differently. Its because of the half life. While Xanax has a half life of four to six hours Klonopine has a half life of thirty to fifty hours so I was taking one .5mg and was fine. It doesn’t have the addictive properties. I noticed when I took Xanax the symptoms would reappear fast and were stronger than before I took it. I would say I have about 3 cups of kava per day which is kind of a lot but Hank has great advice about the extract pills. What I’m trying to do is get to a point where I can have kratom once or twice a week because it’s the only thing that has worked with all my symptoms (anxiety,depression, etc.) and to be honest it’s the only thing that has helped me lead a normal life. I’m just tired and you all know what I mean by that.

2:48 am December 4th, 2013

following up on this blog and just want to comment that “clearly” Kratom has addictive properties and though one may consider using it for pleasurable/recreational purposes, it can be “addictive”which is why it is illegal in Thailand, it’s country of origin. If you are using it to get off of another drug or to taper off of other substances, you may find yourself in a quandary bc it’s very similar to opiate addiction and who’s to say or know exactly what the “actual” ingredients are that you are ingesting bc it’s not regulated by the FDA? I have found that the metabolites of Kratom gold on drug screen are morphine, and codiene. If you have an addictive genetic predisposition…you have set yourself up for a nightmare if you think this is ok to ingest. Addictive behavior deserves some recognition as a physiological disease process, not a “moral” issue, although if you lack the funds or the time for this substance takes to give you the feelings you derive from it, you may find yourself seeking any means to provide yourself with the luxury of affording it such as stealing, lying, missing work, neglecting family responsibilities. Part of addictive behavior should be addressed and one should not feel ashamed to seek help for this sort of thing. There is no shame in reaching out for help when one is overcome with substance abuse. We are beginning to see many people of all walks of life becoming addicted to this substance although it’s not a “classified” drug and so little is known about it here in the states. Research where it comes from, what it’s effects are and ask yourself why certain European and Asian countries have banned it. Knowledge is power!! If you have an addictive nature, trust me…this is just as powerful for you as an illegal opiate.

2:55 am December 8th, 2013

I feel the need to tell my story. I started taking kratom more than 5 years ago. I can’t recall why I started using it but I know why I continued using it, which of course became an addiction. Before kratom I felt I needed alcohol virtually every night. I never had alcohol cravings after starting my run on this drug. This was awesome as my wife, rightfully so, hounded me about my drinking and I was so “proud” that I quit. Reason number two for the development of the addiction was the effects of the drug. I was not an opiate user before kratom so it was especially effective on me. Wow, euphoria, motivation, energy!
So, weekends only became 3 day weekends became every day became 2 times a day became 3 times a day. I know, I’m preaching to the choir about the progression!
I have lost about 35 pounds and I was thin to begin with. I avoid trips, social gatherings and other functions as much as possible now. I eat at weird times so I can have an empty stomach at dosing time. The money. I don’t even want to add that up. I have become lazy and unambitious at work when I was once a top performer. I increased my cigarette use along with kratom because it seems to give it a little kick.
I have come clean with my wife recently. I have come clean with two of my bosses at work who are also good friends. I have the support of these people and I’m so grateful for that.
I need to quit, I have to quit, I will quit. For me, my wife, my beautiful 16 month old son, my career, my life.
I have tapered some the last couple of days but am finding it so difficult to go a day without. I tried going a night without early in my addiction to this garbage and was terrified by the wd symptons. I am weak but I am determined.
To the folks who have successfully quit, congratulations. To those wanting to quit, good luck and if you’re reading this it is a start to sobriety. You realize you have a problem.

Hank S
9:34 pm December 8th, 2013

Kava Kava and it’s use during the quitting process. I noticed that other posters to this blog found Kava Kava helpful as I did. Kava Kava Extract Pills are generally available at your local health and vitamin stores. I would like to give the dosages and tips. First, I would use the “extract pills” and not the root powder pills. This will give you a more effective dosage and control. If you are new with kava I suggest you take about 200 mg of the extract with some food for better absorption. Now at 400 mg you will get a euphoria that may pull you out of the blues and a buzz. The benefits were countering the body fits, the restless legs issue and the depression. It may also help with sleep. Also, some may not have access to a narcotic and Kava should help in that case. However, there are some cautions. Kava is a natural muscle relaxer and will leave you unable to walk if you take crazy amounts. This is especially true when you are new to it. Do not drink alcohol ,because of liver concerns, with kava. If you feel depressed after taking kava for days on end, I would suggest 200 mg of L theniene and 500 mg of GABA. That is only necessary if you depleted your body of serotonin. Because of the euphoria you can get from kava, there could be a concern of addiction. I have found that kava is mild and nothing like kratom. No opiate withdrawal at all. And in the severe case of getting off of kratom, worth the mild risk. After all some are using xanax or buspar and kava doesn’t seem to have the addictive concerns of those. Kava helped me to quit cold turkey and I have been off of kratom since April of 2013.

3:03 pm December 11th, 2013

Wow sounds like Kava is the way to go. I did quit once before I have no clue why on earth I talked myself to use it again. I definitely have some issues as in depression and anxiety and Kratom completely fixed both problems. I will be quitting after this holiday season. Money has never been an issue as an above poster said: you will steal, lie, and extra. I didn’t have any feeling of doing any of them examples. I think maybe they have other issues they need to deal with. Kratom in my opinion should not be illegal meaning it has a lot of good things that it provides as in I’m completely sober I haven’t had a drink in years, my work ethic has only grown stronger, and I’ve became more of a family man. I want to quit because I do not want to be a slave to this herb. I also would have no clue what this stuff is doing to my body I seem to be healthy now but the long run later in life problems scare me. Thanks to you all love this blog and the great people in this group.

7:47 am December 26th, 2013

I’m sorry to say and feel for those addicted. But please please please people, learn from those addicts before using it daily all the time. I think once or twice a week on a Friday or Saturday night is fine but these types of people using it 24-7 will be the cause for another illegal drug. Someone said it should be illegal in five years. Well please have some brains and don’t use it all day and everyday or we will having another herb taken away.

4:00 pm January 5th, 2014

Glad I found a place that is dedicated to the specific problem I am having. To make a long story short I ended up with a herniated disc in my c-5 and c-6 it felt like someone was following me around and poking me in the back wit a screw driver and my finger tips were numb. Anyways by the time it was found and treated I was 2 1/2 years deep in hydro addiction and when the surgery was done and the pain was gone I couldn’t quit the hydro. After a trip to a clinic that was trying to get me on methadone and sub and knew that I didn’t want no part of that I did some research and found Kratom. and indeed it was all that people were saying on the net and I did quit hydro with it. That being said now been on k for 1 1/2 years now and have tried to quit a couple times and on day 2 the depression gets so bad I give in and dose I know Imodium helps with the physical part but the depression and insomnia is bad real bad. I live in a small town and no one here even knows what im talking about including the DR.If anyone here can help me get off or has good game plan to help me help myself please feel free let me know…thanks and reading these post have really helped and inspired me to take the next step and quit kratom…

3:51 am January 7th, 2014

I first posted on December 8th detailing my addiction to kratom. On that very same day I took my last dose and have not used one bit since. I am sober from kratom for one month! In hindsight, it wasn’t all that hard. I certainly was a wreck for a few days and just couldn’t see a life being free from the stuff. The things I used to help were: 5 days of Clonidine which I think was a big help, and a few days of Immodium which helped somewhat but I didn’t care for the side effects i.e dehydration and more constipation that kratom caused.

I’m still experiencing a little bit of sweating from time to time, mild aches-which seem to lessen every day, and I wake up around 3 a.m. every night but can usually fall back asleep after some time. I’ll admit that these things are annoying but it sure beats where I was before.

I know exercise would help me immensely but I just haven’t found the time or motivation to start that yet. I do regret withdrawing in the winter and especially this winter as its been especially brutal where I’m at in the northern plains. In fact, the weather as I type this is the coldest we’ve seen in 18 years. But, I will NOT use that as an excuse to relapse. I don’t care how cold, snowy, or long this winter is. I know that I will have to deal with whatever life throws my way without running to wash some plant matter down my throat.

There is no excuse to go back now. My life was not better while using. Sure, it was fun for a short time but once tolerance set in all I was doing was keeping withdrawal a bay-FOR YEARS.

I had a few people that pounded in my head the reasons I needed to stop so I finally just did it. The fear of withdrawal is worse than the actual symptoms in my opinion but the hours will turn to days and the days to weeks.

8:41 pm January 12th, 2014

Well, just getting to the end of my latest kratom WDs period.

I stopped because my tolerances went through the roof any I was taking almost 40g per day of Green Malay to keep going.
This annoyed me and so I decided to stop.

The WDs aren’t as bad as other times I’ve quit cold turkey, but the most annoying thing is how drawn out they are this time.

I quit on the 26th dec and I’m still feeling freezing cold, restless legs and have some sleep disruption.

It’s not bad or anything that would stop you functioning, it’s just noticeable?

Maybe it’s my age (36 now?) I certainly cannot drink like I could 10 years ago.

11:57 pm January 13th, 2014

Well tonight I’ve downed two loperamide to stop my legs from flailing about as much, that stuff really, really helps (it’s immodium in the UK, it stop dihorriah) spelling <<<<.
I went back to work today after over 3 weeks off knowing I was gonna quit.
It was tough but I took 2000mg of l tyrosine, a 500mg gurana and a lopermide and I lasted the day ok, even though it was manual work and quite tough.
The WDs alway end, you must remember that guys. Ive quit lots of times and gone back on the stuff and have always managed to be ok on my own.
Just take each day ad it comes, have lots of hot baths and keep lopermide nearby for the nightime.

Good luck.

11:02 pm January 14th, 2014

@ Jake

TBH I do regret always WDing during winter. Your mood is always depressed at that end of the year and weeks of feeling shite doesn’t help.
If it were summer I think WDs would be alot easier to deal with as there is so much more to do and you are not stuck indoors like this end of the year.

10:34 pm January 16th, 2014

So I’ve been doing the taper thing for the last 5 days went from 1 1/2 tps 3 times a day to 1 1/2tps for the whole day. Well I have moments of feeling better but it always comes to an end and end up feeling like crap. It seemed easier the last time I quit this stuff tapering makes it feel drawn out, but I’ve gone this far with it and will continue with the taper until this last bit is gone. This time I had the mirror effect when I looked in the mirror I didn’t recognize the person I was looking at “Felt hollow”. I have no clue how I ended up back on the train I found away to talk myself right back on the stuff. Anyway I will chalk this up as a lesson learned walk away from the past and head to the future. Live for being who I am!!! The pain from W/D is almost pleasant in a weird way just knowing I’m running up hill just to find myself at the top and knowing that there’s a down hill run home makes me Happy!!! I wish I could just figure out why the HELL I have to use something just wanting to know what I’m hiding from. Take care you all…

11:06 pm January 19th, 2014

41 yr old male…6ft, 185lbs….only use Maeng Da crushed leaf capsules.

I’ve been on kratom for the last three and a half years, minus one month about a year ago when I “quit”. I wanted to see how easy I could quit, so that if I wanted, I could get back on it. It wasn’t that hard, but I really missed it.

I use kratom mostly during the day for work. I have a somewhat physically demanding job, and kratom gets me thru. The reason I’m getting off again and hopefully for good is I’m tired of the enslavement of the dosing schedule and the negative side effects.

I normally take 6 capsules(0.5grams) in the am right before I start working. I would then take 3 more a few hours later. I would never take anymore than this during a 24 hour day. This method worked great for me.
The problem with taking kratom is you have to stick to a strict dosing schedule. If you don’t, that’s when you start having withdrawal symptoms, and other problems.If you try to fix it by dosing up with more, that’s when you start having real problems. Dosing with more and then going back to your regular dosage causes you to lose control. Taking your kratom at different times other than your normally used to will throw everything off as well. I would sometimes wait a little while in the am to dose up if my work schedule varied, and it messed me up too.

One side effect that I am SICK of are the cold sweats/feeling cold. It was so hard for me to control my body temperature if I waited too long to dose up. I looked like a fool a few times while at work dressing down and dressing back up with coats, hats, gloves etc. NUMEROUS times. I couldn’t get right, it was ridiculous. I knew what the hell was going on, but my co workers thought I was insane.

I also hated the lethargic, coming down depressed feeling I would get after the couple hrs of peak enjoyable high and energy. It just got old…really sick of using kratom. It’s a fantastic mood enhancer/energy , but it is very hard to control and the side effects are too much sometimes to handle.

I only have 6 more capsules left, and then I’m done. I have been using the tapering method and it has really helped. I will prob take two each of the remaining three days. I took three this am.

Wish me luck, and good luck to everyone else! Stay in control of your life!

4:16 pm January 20th, 2014

Thanks for the read Jason and GOOD LUCK 🙂 I’ve been doing the taper thing now for about 10 days decided to quit when I started having problems while using the herb. This is my 2nd time quitting. The first time quitting I went cold Turkey wasn’t all that bad about 7 days of feeling like crap. This time I had negative reactions while using. I started feeling out of my mind I just couldn’t get control. My mind went to crap didn’t want to do anything my skin was a grayish color and my weight was way to low. I also felt like my personality was altered I wouldn’t ever leave the house and couldn’t talk to anybody all my life long interest were no longer interesting. Was this an issue with anybody else? I’m a stay at home dad with 4 kids, it wasn’t always that way I’m in a field that has very little work right now so my wife decided she was wanting to go back to work. I couldn’t keep up with all the chores so I found out about Kratom and away I went. Everything was great I could keep the house clean, cook dinner, and still have time with the kids. My life couldn’t have been better. Now that I decided to quit again I feel so worthless. I think support is the key in quitting but I’m not feeling it, I’ve been superman for way too long I spoiled my whole family to the point that they look at me as a bum today. Everything is 10X harder to do have no energy. I really don’t know what to do just have a feeling of complete loneliness. If I could just get my wife to understand that I will be normal again this is just a wrinkle that will work itself out. As of right now I’m not sure if this relationship is all that equal. When I was working I still had to clean the house, laundry, and cook the dinner. Hmm…well I guess I need to think some more or less about the problems that caused me to use Kratom then work on the problem instead of hiding it. Good luck to you…

8:41 pm January 22nd, 2014

To B.J.

I’m in the same situation as you as far as kids/chores/cooking/cleaning etc.. It’s hard without the energy, and you get burned out quick. I feel ya bro! This is my first full day without kratom..was really missing it this far so good. The tapering has helped me a lot.

11:09 am January 23rd, 2014

I really appreciate this page. I’ve gotten about as deep into Kratom as one could get. I’ve been taking it daily for about 4 years now, my lowest point spending over $80 a day to feel content. Life hasn’t been so kind lately so quitting hasn’t been a serious thought in quite some time, but everyone is so right about being in control of your life and not letting a substance have so much power over you. I’ve always been able to find a way to obtain something I really want so the first step for me is to make myself want freedom from this drug more than anything. Thanks for creating such a judgment free environment. Support really is one of the most important aids in quitting, and I’ll continue to check back here for that.

3:09 pm January 23rd, 2014

Vann were you taking just plain powder? An $80 habit is not something I could ever imagine. Sounds like a jump into the deep end of the pool without knowing how to swim. I’m not judging you at all just trying to understand your position. Seems like a lot of money! I would like to also thank Jason just hearing that you are in the same situation in some off the wall way makes me feel better 🙂 Now Vann I think you should and this is just my opinion do a slow taper, I know I mentioned I didn’t like the taper thing but I didn’t use $80 worth a day. I hope you go forward and get the well deserved freedom that you wish…. Just post I or someone else will be here to help support is the key. I also found a facebook page “Kratom Addiction” very helpful. Take care and good luck…

6:55 am January 27th, 2014

DO NOT use phenibut if you are trying to get off kratom. That’s like using benzo’s to get off kratom, except it’s NOT controlled by your doctor and you can get it anytime for relatively cheap. If you MUST have something to sleep then see a doctor and get just enough for 4 or 5 days. Read experiences of those getting off phenibut and you’ll likely change your mind. You develop a tolerance SUPER quick and the withdrawals are horrid. If you take smaller amounts of kratom, just stop. If you take larger amounts, then taper down. Neither is fun to get off, but phenibut is hardcore bad. I’m currently tapering down on it and even that sucks when you get to the lower amounts. I got off kratom with relative ease with a taper, it’s nothing compared to methadone or phenibut. You can do this and do it WITHOUT phenibut. This is not to minimize what your going through, but I’m just concerned about people recommending phenibut.

6:58 am January 27th, 2014

Oh and btw, I started taking phenibut when I was getting off kratom. Had no idea what I got myself into. You might be someone who, now knowing the score, can use it just for a few days. Then again, if your here for overusing kratom, it’s likely your not… Good luck.

3:57 pm January 27th, 2014

Dustin I myself almost used Phenibut I went to store to store searching it out… I couldn’t find it anywhere here where I live. It sounds like I may have dodged a bullet!!! I’m now on day 3 of completely NO Kratom. Yes I feel like crap, but I know that every day forward will only get better ( Please remember that it will feel like it’s getting worse but in fact it will get better) I’m taking 5-HTP and Imodium twice a day to relieve some of the symptoms at night I do take a small amount of Xanax (Not to sure if that is spelled wright) just for sleeping purposes and do know that it has the ability of addiction. I plan on dropping it as soon as I get back to feeling normal. Don’t what-so-ever buy in to the bullshit the voice in your head is telling you!!! You and myself will feel good again!!! I do know that it is said exercise and getting out helps, but I have a hard time getting the will to do so. I find myself sitting around playing the waiting game. Not sure if that’s just a lack of will but I have no will power, kind of scared to go out and face the world at this time. This also maybe who I truly am and has nothing to do with Kratom. I don’t want you to think I’m a bum I do a lot as in cleaning, cooking, and taking care of my 4 kids. One day will come and that day will be pure bliss remember that burn it into your mind and keep telling yourself them very words over and over again. Thanks for all the reads they help makes me feel like I’m not doing this alone!!!

1:26 am January 28th, 2014

I’m going on a week without any kratom, and I’ve had some tuff times. My body is still wanting it every morning around the usual time I used to take it.

It’s not too hard, but it’s a nagging feeling, almost like a “don’t want to be in my skin” feeling. Very annoying feeling. I take 4 ibuprofen, and it subsides fairly quick. My energy levels have been very low at some times. I go thru depressed stages also.

Really missing kratom right now. I keep trying to justify getting back on, by telling myself that it’s not that bad of an addiction because the withdrawals aren’t that bad..just VERY uncomfortable. I’m wanting that first feeling of euphoria where you can take a deep breath and feel the weight from everything in life just come tumbling off. I miss the really nice energy levels and drive to do things. I’ve felt like a zombie the last few days. Have been drinking red bulls and five hour energys and I’m so immune to that stuff it’s a waste.

I’m starting to see light at the end of the tunnel though. It’s been harder this go around for me to ween myself. I was on this stuff for sooo long, it was a part of my life. I don’t know if I’ll want to go back on eventually. I have mixed feelings right now. My head does feel like it’s becoming clearer and that my “old” self is making a comeback.

8:51 am January 28th, 2014

today will mark the third day without any Kratom. My problem started roughly 4 months back when i had doscovered this plant at a local head shop. The associate didnt have much to say about it other than it felt good and people take it all the time for managing pain. Regrettably, my conscious mind decided to be curious and give into this tempation. It quickly became a habit and before i knew it. All my money was flowing into a drug that i thought i wouldnt have a problem with. I never had the heart to quit until i had an epiphany delivered to my brain from my girlfriend. I realized that if i didnt shape up my behavior(the anxiety and depression i developed through kratom use), that i would burn her out of the relationship. I love her to death. So it finally dawned on me that I needed to quit. So here i am. 3 days strong but im sleepless, anxious, and uncomfortable. Im determined to beat this. Any support is greatly appreciated and my heart goes out to anyone else thats in the midst of this cataclysmic power struggle of their life. Godspeed!

2:20 pm January 28th, 2014

Those of you having the body ache and withdrawal symptoms should try kava kava extract pills. I quit cold turkey and they were a godsend. I recently made a detailed post on this forum with dosage and other suggestions. Lastly, they are usually available at most health food stores.

8:59 pm January 28th, 2014

I see some of your taper schedules and I have to say I think some of you are tapering too fast. The way I look at it is it isn’t any different from tapering off of a synthetic. It takes months not days. I’ll tell you what I did. First I got tablets of Bali (impossible to taper off extracts). That way you know the exact dose. Second I found what makes me feel normal, not too much and not too little just right. Once I find that then I take that many pills five times a day for a week. Then reduce by one every week. For example, I started with 6 five times a day and then the next week went down to 5 and so on. When I’m down to one then at the end of that week starting next week I go to 1 four times a day then the next week 1 three times a day and so on. So this actual schedule takes 10 weeks. Now what I’m going I add this time at the end of the ten weeks is taking 1 pill every other day for a week or two. Seems excessive I know but it works. I’ve done it but what I messed up on was at the end I was only taking one pill a day and felt great so I went completely off. Big mistake. I should of gradually reduced that. There are people here that can go cold turkey and be fine but some of us (me) can handle the withdrawal but not the PAWS. Also throw I’m there kava extract pills like what Hank was saying. I’m at week 4 with no issues and I’ll report back at the end. This substance has been a god send for me. It helped me quit drinking, manage my depression and anxiety until it was not an issue. But I’m just tired. I want to be able to get to the point where I can enjoy it once a week. If you’ve ever talked to anyone tapering off of anti-anxiety or depression pills they will tell you it takes months. Oh yes if any of you tries this schedule make sure you take it on an empty stomach. I take it right before eating. Plenty of vendors online that sell it in pill form. Good luck everyone. We are all here for you. And Nick you are only four months in. You will be back to normal in no time. I know time is going by super slow but you’ll get there quick. My taper schedule is really meant for people who have been on it for years.

6:47 am January 29th, 2014

Hey Austin, in response to your post:
Thank you for the encouragement and helping me see the light at the end of the tunnel a bit sooner. Unfortunately i was already up to around 14g/day with my habit, and having severe addictive tendencies. It makes cold turkey and withdrawls so much worse due to the mental aspect of it. I have a busy scheduele and it helps. Whats also helped me is l-tyrosine, 5-htp, b complex and valerian root. I find this combination. Taken preferably on an empty stomach to encourage proper absorbtion to greatly counter the negative aspects of the mental withdrawl. The physical w/ds have subsided so now all i have left is the mental deceit my mind likes to play. Not giving in. Not giving up. Ive beaten other addictions. I can beat this too. Good luck with your tapering scheduele. I hear it works well for many people, unfortunately im not one of those. I lack the self control to have it in my possession at all. So this is what works for me. 🙂

10:01 pm January 29th, 2014

Hey Nick I’m glad you’re over the physical part. That can be super uncomfortable and annoying but manageable. Someone also made a comment about phenibut. I had seen on another board that phenibut helps with the withdrawals and helps you sleep but after investigating it further I realized that wasn’t going to be the best for me. Sounds like withdrawals are 10 times worse than this. With my career I have to always be “on” 24/7 and after I’m done with the physical part the PAWS absolutely paralyze me. Even performing the basic of tasks is next to impossible. Last time I was very dedicated but when I felt better I should of never jumped off. It was going so well.

10:04 pm January 29th, 2014

Well it posted before I was ready. Anyway hang in there buddy and that also goes for everyone else.

Gina Zalner
3:02 am January 31st, 2014

I was really hoping to get some insight because I have been using Kratom daily for about 18 months, usually 10grams a day. I have 100 grams of plain leaf that I would like to use for the weaning process. Try as I may, I haven’t found any good info in terms of dosage and scheduling. It would just help give me a better use of how much to use per day to make it a comfortable transition.

3:33 pm January 31st, 2014

Gina start out with a dose that makes you feel normal not as much as you do daily but just enough to feel alright, do that for awhile lets say a week. the I found that I could get use to a lower dose every 3rd day this also could just be me, but thats what I did… I got down to a 1/4 Tsp. a day not sure of weight. I still had Kratom left but decided at that point to flush it. Today is day 7 of no Kratom use. Remember you will feel like the withdrawal will never end but it will you will feel good again… Don’t buy into all the loom and doom crap stay positive… The taper thing I find is different for everybody I always had a mind set that if I felt to good then I wasn’t tapering enough… Keep me posted.. If you need any additional help PM me at Kratom Addiction on Facebook.. Guys I’m not trying to support my page just trying to be a team player!!!! Thanks…

7:56 pm January 31st, 2014

BJ got it exactly right. You wanna still function, otherwise you might as well go cold turkey. It’s truly different for everybody and each may find a different aspect that to them is the worst. Some might not be able to sleep. others may sleep alright. Some may get anxious, others not. A lot of it comes down to what you have a predisposition to. If you had sleep problems or anxiety before, any particular reason you used it in the first place then that will be what bothers you. I have fibromyalgia and lots of muscle and joint pain that muscle relaxers and anti-inflammatories don’t even touch. So heightened pain and restless leg syndrome is what reeeally bothered me. You may be different. Really it’s just a feeling out process and as long as you ARE tapering then thats what matters. I would say initially aim for a gram less per week. When you get down to ,say, 2 grams, then reduce by a half gram per week. Now obviously with 100 grams your not gonna have enough, but that would be a very comfortable withdrawal and would give you a high chance of not giving in bc it’s too much too quick and taking more. If you have things you have to keep up with then that’s how I would do it. Everyone’s different though.Some people just have to flush it all, cut the cord, and go cold turkey. I did that with methadone (terrible withdrawals) the first time I got off it and hydromorphone (bad also but much quicker). Never again though. You eventually get to the point where you just can’t handle cold turkey anymore. Tapering is the way to go as long as you have the discipline to keep up with it. Some people have to go as far as having someone else ration out their money so they CANT spend more on whatever it is their dealing with. But anyways, plan it out and stick with it. If you are bound and determined to only use 100 grams, then it’s really a matter of dividing it up with less and less per day. Keep in mind though, the lower you get the harder it gets. I prefer reducing by percentage rather than say a gram per week. Going from 10 to 9 is reducing by 10 percent, right? Going from 2 to 1 is by 50%…much harder. But reducing by 10 percent the whole time takes fooorever. There’s tons of good info here about supplements to help you on your way. 5htp, st johns wort (contrary to belief, you CAN take those two together, you will NOT get serotonin syndrome), l-theanine, valerian root (the kind with passionflower is good, but dont take passionflower with st johns wort), loperamide (immodium) is also really good for rls but dont take more than one or two, and if a doctor is willing then something for sleep ( valium is probably the preferred) for ONLY when its bad enough. Anyways, if you have any other questions then just let me know, I’ll answer. Good luck.

8:02 pm January 31st, 2014

Oh, clonidine from a doc is always very helpful. If you don’t wanna tell him about kratom then you might tell him you’ve been smoking cig’s and want to quit and that you get really irritable and anxious when you don’t smoke. Your friend told you about clonidine and that it helped them to quit. It’s generally best to just be honest with the doc though.

8:06 pm January 31st, 2014

Also, the third/fourth day is generally the worst, so if your not too bad by that point, then you can go down amount-wise a little more OR go down a little more frequent.

9:55 pm January 31st, 2014

To both of you, thank you for the insight and encouragement. Look I am a 40 something mom of one with a good job. Never was a drinker but I found Kratom and it did wonders to help with the anxiety of relating in social situations. I’ve quit before without much difficultly but this had been the longest using stretch for me. I know to expect a little bit of a runny nose but it’s the leg pain I’m dreading. My job requires me to stand. I wanted to do a logical taper rather than another option. My md gives me an rx for Tramadol that I take for RLS only when needed. I know it will help ease the Kratom w/d but I don’t want to trade habits. That and the risk of seizures when not taking as directed is enough to scare me. A seizure would mean suspended drivers license-and then it will all go downhill from there. I’ve printed out your responses to refer to.

I just used my last recreational dose and I have my 100gr to come in mail tomorrow. This way I can take the weekend to get my head in the right frame of mind. I agree that a persons outlook can make this transition a but easier. I know my chances are slim if I don’t do affirmations. I wish I had people around me to do that but that would mean revealing my past. I have a great little boy that I need to be there for as it’s just the two of us. Really the encouragement means more than anything, this is a long time coming and not a moment too soon.

10:01 pm January 31st, 2014

As much as I had to admit this I will so that maybe people can offer dosage in terms of grams. I have a scale that we used for my sons pinewood derby car so that will come in handy for measuring weight. Anyhow I’m using 15grams three times daily of either Bali or Red vein. I’ve never used extracts. This is going to be hard in the fact that I had found a very good vendor who was always liberal with extras they included with orders. Think positive Gina!!!

12:33 am February 1st, 2014

Okay Gina, having thought about it more I’d try (by week) 8 grams , 6 grams, 4 grams, 2 grams, 1 gram, .5 gram and after that’s over your free…that should be relatively painless if followed. IF you only wanna do it with the 100, then do 7 grams week 1, 4 grams week 2, 2 grams week 3, 1 gram week 4, and 4 days of .5 gram. That shouldn’t be too bad either although you’ll feel it a little. Mainly mental though. Either way, your amounts to begin with aren’t too bad, so you’ll be fine either way, no worries : )

12:47 am February 1st, 2014

I also want to add about kava kava, which I have experience with, that the extracts can be dangerous. Many of these companies use other parts of the kava plant other than the roots to make the extracts with. This way they can save a whole bunch of money and still charge you an arm and a leg for it. The only way that kava is possibly harmful to your liver is by using parts of the plant other than the roots. If you MUST have an extract I would order some online from a reputable kava seller who ONLY sells kava. They also have instant kava which you can mix with water and drink, it’s really easy. Good kava sellers are: Nakamal at Home, Bula Kava House, and Paradise Kava. Extracts are generally lower quality and overpriced. The taste of genuine kava kava from the root is pretty horrible and it’s time consuming to wring kava root in a mesh bag for 15 or 20 minutes (though I’ve come to kinda enjoy the process) so I’d choose the happy medium and go for the instant kava. Both Nakamal at Home and Bula Kava House have good instant kava. STILL not the relaxation (both physical and mental) you get from quality root, but good enough for your withdrawal relief purposes. I’d stay away from health store extracts though…NOT healthy and waaaaaay overpriced.

6:25 pm February 1st, 2014

Wait, Gina, your using 15 grams 3 times daily (45 total) or 15 grams total divided up into 3? I’m hoping you meant 15 total…either way you can still get off, but you might need more than 100 grams to do it with and still be functionable. Also, taking kratom and tramadol at the same time might make things worse for you. Kratom affects mainly your delta receptors (except at very high doses) and tramadol affects your mu receptors. Taking a delta opioid and a mu opioid at the same time might actually cause withdrawals. I’d be hesitant to take them at the same time, unless you have already and find they were okay. To me the real answer is a slow taper. Gotta stay disciplined though and just have your son as your motivation to stick with it. With discipline and a taper it really shouldn’t be too bad.

6:34 pm February 1st, 2014

Gina, if you ever feel you need something recreational while tapering and feel your going to give in, it might be worth trying kava (NOT the extract, either instant or actual kava root and make the drink). It’s a pain in the a$$ to make the real drink from the root and tastes horrid, but that’s a plus in keeping it’s use to a minimum. It should be very useful for RLS as well. There’s different types from different places and all have different effects (sort of like kratom) so if interested I could recommend one for RLS and body relaxation. I don’t think the “addictiveness” of kava is really anything like kratom. It’s up to you though.

10:53 pm February 1st, 2014

Thanks Dustin and I like your idea of that schedule. Yes I did take 15grams three times a day. By no means will I be taking Tramadol with Kratom. I only plan to take them at night with Benadryl if needed for sleep. I’ve been researching kava so I may explore that option. What are your thoughts on phenibut? The stories are mixed so I don’t know if I want to go down that road, risking becoming dependent on something else. I was prescribed suboxone to stop the pain meds which I took for 1 week after learning of Kratom. I was scared of being on suboxone long term and Kratom ended up working so well. The leg cramps and anxiety washed away. Nearly two years later and I was still using it. The recurring opinion on phenibut is that it does wonders for sleep.

11:07 am February 2nd, 2014

Hmm, at 15 grams 3x a day (if you’ve taken that for a while now) then you might have to change that schedule up some. I was going off of the 10 grams a day I saw in a post. Kava will cost you more but there’s really no risk to it, no withdrawals. I’m tapering off phenibut now and it’s a nightmare. Look up phenibut withdrawals and read the forums for people getting off phenibut. Like tapering off benzodiazepines which are terrible to get off, except you can take benzo’s like almost a month before withdrawals. Phenibut. after use for one week, you’ll have withdrawals. Tolerance develops ridiculously fast. It’s really only meant to be used 1, at most 2, nights a week (like kratom). I’d reeeeally stay away from it. It would more than likely be trading one withdrawal for another that’s even worse and then what can you use for that withdrawal to help sleep? Benzo’s, IF a doc will prescribe them…none have heard of phenibut. And I know the obvious thing would be to only take it one or two nights, lol. But it’s toooooo easy when desperate for sleep and getting away from withdrawals to take it more often. I’d get valium or ambien from a doc for a short period of time, NOT have to taper off that, and get it all over with. Bottom line though is not to go the phenibut route. A lot of people play the revolving substances game where they decide to get off one and just end up on another. That’s definitely not the way to go. Prescribed benzo’s or ambien for a period and kava I’d choose if it were me. Above all though is just don’t taper too fast and maybe not need any of it.

11:20 pm February 3rd, 2014

Kava Kava for withdrawals; extract pills or whole root straining?
For the purpose of immediate relief from withdraw issues, the kava extract pills should be fine. They are readily available locally and do not require the expense and learning curve with kava root extraction. In the past there ( about 15 years ago) were issues in Europe with other parts of the kava plant being used. However, today you can read on the box that the extract is from the root . Any reputable company should be ok. I personally use extracts from Gaia, natural balance , natoral and herbaphram.
Now the root preparation is great and I started with that method. It is a whole different experience and you may enjoy it. However, if you are in an acute withdrawal episode and need quick relief, I suggest you get the extract that day from your local health store.
I’ve taken the extract without any issues.

12:31 am February 9th, 2014

I hope this post puts some Kratom users and their concern for withdrawals at ease. First thing first Kratom has been a godsend for many users and therefore should not be regulated or made illegal. As with other substances, if you use irresponsibly then you’ll pay the piper when you quit. I’m talking about people who take way more than 10 grams a day.

Now to my post, I’ve used Kratom for about the last 4-6 months daily at no more than 5 grams a day. On average, I’d say 2.4 to 3.6 grams a day. I’ve used the Green Malaysian from Kratom Therapy.COM. I decided 1 week ago to stop using it everyday and to just use it at most once a week. My first 48 hours was the sluggish feeling many have described here, extreme feeling of boredom, no energy, light sleeping, but was able to sleep. After that the symptoms I described cleared up. I think a lot depends on the amount you use and whether or not you use it daily. I know withdrawal very well as I abused RX pain medicine (oxycodone, hydrocodone, morphine, dilaudid) for 8 years. I went through withdrawal hell – even taking Kratom to curb some of the withdrawal. So what I experienced for 2 days was a walk in the park.

For those going through withdrawal, I pray for you and hope for a speedy recovery. For those using Kratom, you may want to consider how much you are using and whether or not it is a daily habit. I did depend on Kratom to help with the day and that is why I used it daily for as long as I did. Now I plan on a recreational use or when Ibuprofen doesn’t cut the pain of a failed back surgery. The purpose of this post is to put those people who may use Kratom daily, but use it minimally (2.5 to 5 grams) shouldn’t make yourself sick by worrying about withdrawal, but know that there will be some minimal discomfort when quitting after using it for 4-6 months. Good luck and please use responsibly.
8:55 pm March 5th, 2014

Too bad you don’t spend as much time talking about the really destructive addictions such as:
Prescription drugs,
diet sodas,
Fast food,
Video games, …where do i stop?
Any single one of these things has destroyed more lives, wasted more productivity, caused more health problems… than ALL of the herbal supplements COMBINED!

Did i mention prescription drugs?
Check out those side effects and withdrawal symptoms. Ssshh!!!
Talk about biased propaganda.

2:45 pm March 6th, 2014

I have gone through Kratom withdrawal after using a concentrated tincture multiple times per day for well over a year and I’d like to add some other withdrawal symptoms that don’t appear on your list: nausea and violent vomiting, severe muscle stiffness, watery eyes, excessive sneezing, diarrhea, and extreme hot/cold flashes with chills and sweats. These are some of the most uncomfortable symptoms you get, but there are some things you can do/take for relief. Valium or will help a lot with the anxiety and even some of the more general symptoms. You can take loperamide (Imodium) to help with the diarrhea, but be careful because loperamide is actually an opiate, so taking it can elongate the withdrawal period. Clonidine, a blood pressure medication, can help with the hot and cold flashes as well as the sweating and even nausea. I have yet to find anything that will help with the sleep, though I haven’t been able to try Lunesta or Ambien. The muscle stiffness can be countered with a muscle relaxant such as Flexeril. I’ve heard that Gabapentin can help reduce the severity of many of the symptoms, but have not been able to come by any to test with.
You’ll notice that I haven’t been able to test many of the medications that have been shown to help. Some of them are considered to have abuse potential and, sadly once you inform your doctor that you have used drugs, they will almost certainly never give you a prescription for anything with any abuse potential ever again. So, while there are many medications available to help, you likely won’t benefit from any of them because you are a drug addict and drug addicts can’t be given certain medications because they’ll just immediately abuse them, even if they are intended to treat the very addiction they are being persecuted for.

10:43 pm March 6th, 2014 it’s to bad that you went to a kratom addition site to make people aware of other things addictive other than what this site is dedicated too… Yes all those things mentioned are addictive, but have nothing to do with this blog and will not help anybody here in anyway!!!! I feel sorry for you and hope that you find the war that you are looking for… This place is to help people not degrade them….

5:37 pm March 9th, 2014

Here’s a very useful tip for those in/about to be in withdrawal. A few symptoms of withdrawal are caused by glutamate excitotoxicity. An NMDA antagonist comes in very handy for dealing with these symtpoms. Since you’re unlikely to get a script for Memantine, you can use a few OTC options. Number 1 is magnesium glycinate. Buy a bulk bag online from Amazon. Get some calcium as well bc you need calcium to absorb the magnesium. Use equal amounts. If you don’t use the calcium with it then you won’t absorb it and you’ll have exacerbated diarrhea. Number 2 and even more effective than the magnesium is dextromethorphan (DXM). DXM is a pretty decent NMDA antagonist (lowers glutamate). You only need to use 30 or at most 60 mg of it, basically therapeutic amounts. In fact, I’d recommend using the calcium, magnesium, and DXM.

8:19 pm March 9th, 2014

I forgot to add, with the magnesium you want to take 1200-1800 mg. The calciums are generally 600 mg, so 2 or 3 of them with it as well.

8:23 pm March 9th, 2014

A couple grams of l-theanine or 4 or 5 grams of taurine can be very useful as well. You want to take these either 2 (at least) hours after a meal or at least 30 minutes before a meal. These work on the GABA A receptors (like valium/xanax).

10:59 am March 16th, 2014

Hi there every one. a friend of mine ; 25 female is coming off opiates ( heroine) and for the past 10 days has been using super indo kratom which has been very helpful to her. for the first 4 day she used 4 teaspoons daily (40 grams a day) the last week its been one teaspoon (10 grams) in two dozes a day. she is still having physical opiates withdawls symptoms which is uncharacteristic of heroine after 10 days . insomnia rest less legs and so on. I am wondering if kratom reduction has been a contributor and if some one can tell me if she were to come of kratom now ( after say 2 weeks usage daily) would she have withdrawal symptoms of that? I would appreciate any help. its really hard on her . please help if you can. specially with how long more (if any) she can take kratom until she is hooked on it

11:02 am March 16th, 2014

can any one help with short term usage of kratom. a friend of mine is using to get over opiate withdrawls. has been on them for 2 weeks now. does any one know if she will get withdral symptoms if she stops?

11:09 am March 17th, 2014

@danialb I would have your friend increase her dosages a bit to be more comfortable. I can relate to how she is feeling. If you scroll down you will see some ideas for titration which I actually followed. I cap my Kratom to make it more palatable. Right now I am taking 6 caps in the morning about 7 am and then take another 6 caps about 2 hours before bed and this helps keep the legs calm. I plan to reduce the amount of caps by one for each 5 days. I would be content with maybe taking 4 caps twice daily to maintain a comfort and ability to work and function. Not to mention that 4 caps twice a day is much more affordable than what I had been doing 3 months ago. I was actually going to the poorhouse.

1:13 pm March 17th, 2014

I’ve come off major opiates myself in the past, but never with kratom. From what I understand kratom works on the delta opioid receptors at lower amounts and at higher amounts works on the mu (same as heroin) opioid receptors. So she’s really been doing more of a taper with the kratom rather than stopping the withdrawal symptoms with something non opiate/opioid and then being able to stop with no issues. You said she used four teaspoons 4x the first 4, but then you said 40 grams total. Did you mean tablespoons? A teaspoon is like roughly 2.5 grams. Anyways, she more or less has been doing a taper it sounds like and it takes a while doing it that way. I don’t know just how heavy her H use was, but it sounds like so far you’ve been doing it right. Probably should have done (if 40 grams is correct) 40 to 30 to 20 to 10 to 5 to nothing. I would recommend getting more if running low and staying at 10 (or maybe trying 15 or 20 grams if the symptoms are still real bad) a while until she feels stable because heroin to 40 grams then jumping all the way down to 10 is a bit too much so it’s gonna take a little while to get stable at 10, Then go to 5 and maybe even then 2.5 and then nothing (like 5-7 days at each). Then she’ll still feel really minor stuff for a while but it’ll be very manageable, I don’t know if she’s had full heroin withdrawals before, but you basically did (and are still doing) a taper. She needs to stay at 10 until stable and then go to 5 for a little while and then stop. Basically buy enough kratom online (if you have at least 3 days till she’s out) bc head shops tend to have crap and finish out the taper. Once she’s stable at 5 and feels normal she can stop or even go to 2.5 AS LONG AS SHE’S GOING DOWN. She should be okay, it just takes time. It’s a HELL of a lot easier to taper off an opiate/opioid then to go cold turkey I can tell you that much. Anyways, it’s first thing in the morning, so if some of all this was confusing and you have questions, then post them and I’ll answer later before 10 a.m. or after around 2:30 (eastern standard) bc I have class. But if low on kratom you need to get more then, especially if the withdrawals are still fairly bad.

2:36 pm March 17th, 2014

Thank you Dustin.
I saw her yesterday at rehab. she is staying for an extra week. she did start with about 40 Grams Hi Dustin. Thanks for the advise . just so things are clear at the worse part of heroine withdrawl. (day 2 ) she started to take Kratom with DF118 the kratom was super indo and it averaged around 40 grams a day. ( she had 200 grams and it finished in4/5 days) a day for 4 days. she then went down from there to 2 hooped tea spoon a day for 3 days or so and for the past 4 days she has been on one normal teaspoon a day. physically she told he she is not suffering quite as much now. her words are she is 80%. so its not unbearable .As I said she is now taking 1 teaspoon of super indo kratom daily and this has been the case for about 4 days now she is hoping to go down to half a tea spoon for a few days and then stop.
my question is will she suffer withdrawl symptoms from coming of the kratum too. given that by the time she is off it she would have been having daily use for 2.5 weeks. does any one know?
BTW She was on Heroine for 2 years at about 1 gram a day injecting and smoking. this is her 4th attempt to stop but she is in the right mind-set this time and is determined and clear on her objective of sobriety

1:17 pm March 19th, 2014

Okay, well it sounds like things are going pretty good then, all things considered, A gram is a pretty decent sized habit, especially with the strength of it nowadays compared to, say, ten years ago. Yes, she will still have withdrawals when she comes off, but it should be the same as what she has going from 1 teaspoon a day to a half. It’s just an extra step. I would recommend sticking with the one teaspoon for 7 days (if there’s enough) and THEN doing the half teaspoon for 7 days. Again, this is if there’s enough for that. You want to try to be fairly stable at each amount before going down again, I would also HIGHLY recommend an herb called passionflower for any anxiety and restlessness. I would even MORE highly recommend a supplement called D phenylalanine (NOT L phenylalanine, but D phenylalanine). Order it on Amazon, the brand is called Doctors Best bc you can’t find it in stores (she wants to start it as soon as possible!). D phenylalanine is a natural supplement that prevents the breaking down of enkephalins (including endorphins, your bodys natural painkillers) as quickly. By preventing the breaking down as quickly of endorphins, it essentially slowly raises the levels of endorphins. It takes one to two weeks to reach full effect. Opiate users have severely depleted endorphins when they stop which is a large part of the reason they feel like crap. It will help prevent PAWS (post acute withdrawals syndrome). Take 3-4 (even 6 if you can afford it) a day for a few weeks to a month. Then from there every 2-3 weeks take one less a day. It’s $15 for a bottle of 60, so kinda play with that schedule for whatever you can afford, but it really helps, a lot of rehabs use it with their opiate patients. Passionflower as well. At night, for sleep, use Natures Bounty brand Valerian Root (it also has a small amount of Passionflower, Lemon Balm, and Hops) and if that’s not enough, use some Passionflower with it. If some depression exists (and she’s NOT already taking any prescription anti-depressants) then take some 5 HTP. Start at 100-200 mg a day, half of it first thing in the morning and half at noontime. Either buy a brand with B6 already in it or buy some 25 mg B6 tablets and take half of it with each dose. The B6 is HIGHLY important, bc your body needs it to convert the 5 htp to serotonin. The time of day you take it is also HIGHLY important. If you take it in the evening then it mainly turns into melatonin. You can take up to 300-400 mg of 5 HTP a day. With the D phenylalanine, the passionflower, the Natures Bounty brand Valerian (w/ hops, passionflower and lemon balm) and the 5 HTP, she will truly feel a lot better than she would otherwise. This will make her chances of a successful recovery MUCH higher. If you have any questions, just post them. I truly hope she recovers and moves forward with her life and that all this is just a bad memory soon.

1:32 pm March 19th, 2014

Again, I can’t stress getting these herbs and supplements any more highly! She’ll feel better than she has in a LONG time with them and they’ll prevent PAWS and any relapses. Inositol is another supplement you can throw in there (4 grams 3 times a day), for depression, if needed. If I had all these things when I quit, it would have went SO much easier. None of them are addictive. Overnight or two day ship them if need be. The sooner the better!

1:49 pm March 19th, 2014

Gina, I forgot to add yesterday that I’m glad to hear from you. I’ve been wondering how you were doing and if you had ever started tapering. Glad to hear it!

10:00 pm March 19th, 2014

@Dustin. I have a friend who is also tapering off kratom and you have some really great information but I was wondering if you start these supplements when you are totally off kratom or while tapering. Thanks.

9:24 pm March 20th, 2014

Depends on which one. The D phenylalanine I’d save for when your about to jump off (stop completely). Actually, I’d perhaps start it a few days before that. Also, I forgot to mention in my previous posts, don’t take the D phenylalanine within 30 minutes before eating and wait at least 2 hours after eating. Basically make sure you take it more than a half hour before you eat or wait two hours (at least) after you eat to take it. The 5 htp you can start at any time. The same applies to it as far as 30 minutes before eating and 2 hours after. Take the 5 htp first thing in the morning, as long as the sun is out, then take the first D phenylalanine 30 minutes after. If you take them at the same time, the two will compete and you’ll end up absorbing less of each. 5 htp is the precursor to serotonin and melatonin, so if you take it in the evening when it’s dark it mostly turns to melatonin. If you take it in the morning when the sun’s out (when your serotonin production is at its peak) it’ll mainly become serotonin. Be sure to take it with some vitamin B6 or buy a brand that combines it with B6. It’s a lot cheaper to buy it in bulk and some 100 mg B6 tablets though and divide them up into little pieces. I take it daily though and have a scale to weigh the bulk powder. If you take an SSRI anti-depressant I’d ask your doctor first before taking it. You can start on the 5 htp anytime while tapering because I know depression is a part of it. 100-200 mg in the morning and 100-200 around noon or 1 is good. Some people just take one larger dose in the morning, it’s up to you. If you have trouble sleeping during the taper you can use the Valerian, but if you take it too often it’ll eventually crap out on you, so try and save that for when you complete the taper bc the first week off is the worst. Same applies to the passionflower, you can use it while tapering, but don’t take it more than a month straight (same with valerian). So if you’re doing a nice slow gradual taper ( which I recommend) then try not to use them, unless it’s not that often. If you’re doing a super quick week or two taper (which I don’t recommend) then use them. Inositol you can use now, buy it in bulk. I also forgot to mention on here before that Kanna can be another useful herb from what I’ve read, although I’ve never tried it myself. I guess you get it from ethnobotanical websites (the one that starts with phyto…and ends with extractum tends to have quality things. I have no affiliation with them). It has anti-depressant and and soothing effects. I’ve read reports of it being used to help with OCD, addiction, etc, so it sounds promising. Be careful combining it with 5 htp though. If you wanted to try it then don’t take 5 htp that day. Then perhaps add 50 mg a day slowly and make sure you feel okay. Also, don’t use Kanna long term. 5 htp you can use long term, I use it daily and it always works just the same. A good men’s (or womens for the females that might read this) multivitamin is also recommended bc you tend not to eat much during the period when you just get off. I know all this costs money, but think of how much you’ll save when you’re off kratom. It’s worth it in the long run. Lastly, I try to stick with natural things, but clondine can be super useful for the physical symptoms when you’re just getting off. It’s not addictive and there’s not “high” from it. You’d have to get this from a doctor though. You can be honest and tell him about the kratom, which I officially recommend, or (if you’d rather not tell him about kratom) tell him you’ve been smoking cigarette’s and want to quit and hear clonidine is quite useful, because it’s used for that as well.

9:46 pm March 20th, 2014

Magnesium Glycinate is also useful for restlessness and muscle pain, you have to take it with calcium though in order for it to be absorbed. Equal amounts of each. When detoxing off an opiate (or benzo) our brain tends to produce more glutamate, which is an excitatory neurotransmitter. This is what a lot of the restlessness is from. The restlessness always drove me nuts when I used to detox of prescription opioids and didn’t know about these things. Like 2 grams of magnesium twice a day is good. Don’t go over 6 grams total in a day. If you have a scale I’d recommend buying both the magnesium and the calcium in bulk (amazon’s a good place for this). You can use both of these at any time, while tapering, when off, long term, etc…Also, avoid foods with MSG because monosodiumglutamate turns DIRECTLY into glutamate in our brains. This is hard to do because so many companies hide it under names like hydrolyzed soy protein, whey protein isolate, soy protein isolate, “natural flavor”, yeast extract, etc…I have fibromyalgia which means I have 3x (atleast) the amount of substance P that “normal” people have. Substance P is like the opposite of endorphins, it increases pain. Glutamate increases this substance P, so I’ve literally had to start eating vegetables, fruit, and lean meats with no packaged foods or gluten (wheat, soy, dairy, corn) because they all increase glutamate. Sorry, I got way off topic there.

4:15 pm March 21st, 2014

Thanks Dustin. I’ve definitely got things under control to the point where it’s no longer hurting my finances or running my life. I had read so many stories about Phenibut and one would think I would listen, but I have something positive to report. I ordered the powder and tried two capsules on two different occasions. First off I can’t say that I felt any different or compulsion to try them again much less at a high dose. I slept great the two nights I took it but it left me with a mild headache the next day and feeling so relaxed that I didn’t want to get out of bed. It was pretty inexpensive but I truly do not recommend it based on the research I’ve done. The bad definitely outweighs the good.

4:41 pm March 26th, 2014

well to update every one. she came off heroine usage using kratom to ease the withdrawl which helped significantly and after 2 weeks of usage. ( first week quite heavy 40 grams a day (crushed leaves not extract) and the second week starting with 3 teaspoons of the same ( super indo kratom) moving down to 1/2 teaspoon and then she stopped on the 15th day. it is now day 22 and so she has been of kratom for a week. no serious withdrawls other than the first 2-3 days but not too hard,. Now the big problem is insomnia . she can not sleep much and has resorted to taking 5-6 mg of etizolam before bed time. The oils that was suggested by KIm above do actually work for the most part on the sleeping (Peace and calming and patouchli). does dustin or any one else have any idea for insomnia to get her to sleep more. so important if we can deal with that. thanks for all your help guys. also Dustin she is taking the D phenylalanine you suggested with 100mg b6 tablets twice a day ( you had suggested 20mg tablets- is that ok??) and the Insotohl she is taking two tablets a day. No real sign of depression but the stress is definitely there which I attribute to lack of sleep. any way if any one can help with the sleeping thing I would most most greatful

2:29 pm March 27th, 2014

The B6 was for 5htp (which is probably better than inositol) which is for depression (it’s the precursor to serotonin and melatonin) which with b6 your body turns to serotonin if taken in the morning when your serotonin production is at it’s height and melatonin in the evening (after it’s dark out) when you melatonin production is at it’s height. I’d break up the B6 tablets because 100 mg is too much, I’ve never been able to understand why they sell 100 mg amounts. It’s borderline enough to cause nerve damage. Melatonin (from 5 htp at night) might help, but don’t take it too long that way (meaning in the evening). Passionflower and valerian root are good for stress and sleep as well (depending on the amount). I wouldn’t take those amounts of etizolam for more than a week, and even then she might have sleep issues coming off of that. So it’s really kinda just putting it off. I’ve heard of people taking 2 mg for two weeks and even then they had sleep issues coming off. Also, try some nighttime cough medicine with dextromethorphan and doxylamine succinate, it works pretty good. Walgreens has a generic gel cap called “cold and flu relief” in a blue box. It says to take 2, which she should try first, but 3 or 4 probably wouldn’t hurt if need be. You can buy a brand called Natures Bounty there that has valerian and passionflower in it along with Lemon Balm and Hops. Works pretty good. If she’s been taking the etiz for close to a week I’d do a taper down on that (try going to 4 and 2.5 and then 1 can’t say how long for sure of each just see how each goes) to avoid rebound insomnia on top of her already sleep issues while taking the other things I mentioned. You can get 5 htp there too, but it’s expensive which is why I said to get it online where you can get a years worth in bulk for what it costs for a month at the store. If she’s not depressed though then just buy melatonin, it’s cheaper. With all these things (Cough, Natures Bounty, and Melatonin) she should be good. DO NOT keep taking etizolam at those amounts because I can about guarantee she’ll have some irritability and insomnia coming off of that when she’s not even fully 100% over all the other stuff she just went through.

8:10 pm April 9th, 2014

24 hours deep it sucks but gonna keep going

12:18 am April 10th, 2014

Well here I am again. I cratered several months back and have probably been using more than ever. I’m on hour 40 cold turkey. I told my wife and she’s been terrific, loving supportive …etc. That actually drives me all the more. I know I have a few friends on this site, Drobium, Austin … to name a few. A lot of you have helped me over the last year and a half. I am suffering but am working and living life through it. I did go and see a doctor who was sympathetic that I wanted out but was concerned about the withdrawals so she prescribed some valium that I wife has possession of. I’m taking a half twice a day. I hate the way it makes me feel. It’s just not for me .. but I think that it’s helping. The main things are helping are, hot showers (all symptoms and pain disappears under running hot water). Sitting out under the hot sun helps somewhat – not like the shower though. Hot coffee is good. These are the things that I am doing to beat this. I also do not have any cash or debit cards in my possession. I was taking up to 50 grams a day. I will get off at 10pm, go home have a hot shower, get in bed with a hot cup of green decaf tea and a half of a valium. I hope that you guys are conquering your additions. I think there’s a better life out there.

1:46 pm April 10th, 2014

JR, you should use D phenylalanine and do a taper with it. It’s kinda too late now though. Unless you go back on at a reduced amount for a while. It reduces the breakdown of enkephalins (including endorphins) thus raising your endorphin levels. Not to kratom levels, but it does to a pretty good degree. I would’n’t use it till off kratom completely though, otherwise it just potentiates it. Stabilize at 6-8 a day and then reduce your consumption by 1-2 a week. 5 htp and L methionine are also really good for helping the serotonin aspects of the withdrawal. Passionflower is good for opiate/opioid withdrawals as well. Valerian root helps with sleep some as well as melatonin. Also, why cold turkey? That’s really making things harder on yourself…

1:50 pm April 10th, 2014

You can get it all on Amazon at a good price. If you have prime membership (you can do a free trial and then cancel it BTW) you get free 2 day shipping. I’d go back on at a reduced amount. Cold turkey, to me, is unnecessarily hard on yourself. I just can’t see why people do it that way. If you’re set on it though, then best of luck!

9:57 pm April 10th, 2014

@JR. I hope you’re not coming down on yourself too hard. In all actuality I would rather be addicted to this than what I used to go through before I even knew what kratom was. The binge drinking nearly ruined my life but like you, I’m tired. Tired of my schedule having to work around this. The PAWS is what gets me but Dustin has turned me on to something. Something I never thought about before. The supplements he’s recommending make a lot of sense. I’m also going to throw in there some adrenal support. Our bodies stop making all the stuff that makes us feel normal because it doesn’t have to anymore. I was on a long taper and it was very easy but two days into nothing the PAWS hit and I couldn’t function. I decided it wasn’t worth getting fired over because in my field of work there are 100 people behind me, salivating over my job and waiting for me to screw up. There is no doubt that this stuff has helped me lead a normal life. But it’s constant that you have to keep up with it. I do have a period where I will not see my boss for a couple of months so that’s when I’m going to try again. You’re doing great JR and never feel ashamed. We will all get there and this site really helps us all share ideas. I’ll admit it I’m worried what life will be like when I’m off totally and my body has adjusted. Before I had crushing anxiety and I refuse to take the synthetics. Talk about a withdrawal. But this time with Dustin’s supplements and working out regularly it has to be better. Take care buddy and check back in. Take care to everyone.

2:51 am April 12th, 2014

Thanks guys. I’m already into day 4 now. It’s been rough … I have to admit. I do not have it in me to taper. If I have it, I’m going to get high. That’s just the way that it is. I have been working out for years … even on Kratom … so I do have that going for me too. I’ve done several rounds of P90x as well as The Body Beast which I’m currently doing. Not this week though – because I can barely move one leg in front of the other just to get moving. I am lethargic, despondent … and not the best guy to be around right now. I haven’t been pleasant to my kids this week at all. My mouth seems to blurt stuff out before my brain has me not say it. I think that I’m taking a turn at this point. I too am worried about facing life straight. Doesn’t even sound appealing to me …. but I’m going to push and give it a go.

1:34 am April 13th, 2014

im working on day 5 cold turkey

3:58 pm April 13th, 2014

im in day 5 did a quik 2 day taper then cold turkey it hasent been easy but starting to do a little better today…using the Thomas resipe..

12:49 pm April 14th, 2014

You guys need to go buy some DL phenylalanine and some 5 htp stat! Give your body what it needs to make endorphins, epinephrine, norepinephrine and serotonin some and L methionine for serotonin as well. It’s not something you’ll have to taper from, it’s just giving your body precursors to produce these things. They’re amino acids. No one has withdrawals from amino’s.

6:15 pm April 14th, 2014

Hello. I recently found this article and am currently typing a reply for the same reasons everyone else did. I have been a kratom addict for over a year now. As far as the dosage goes, it hasn’t been *too* serious compared to other stories I’ve heard (I’m at 7.2 grams a day, if my calculations are correct – I’ve been taking the capsules). But, it goes without saying that any kind of habit is a bad one and I’m finally serious about quitting. Yesterday, I took 3.2 grams (half my normal dosage), which was all that I had left. I went to my local headshop to pick up more, and they were all out, which I took to be something of a sign. I’ve tried to quit a few times, but I didn’t really “try.” I’d go several days without taking it, and say something along the lines of “This stuff isn’t bad at all! I’m better with it than I am without it and I’ve noticed very few negative health side effects and I barely got any withdrawals. I think I’ll just keep taking it.” Needless to say, it has been draining my bank account significantly and ruining my ambition, and it wasn’t until I looked into my drawer and saw stacks of empty kratom capsule bottles next to my socks that I realized how serious and pathetic this problem has become in my life. So I have vowed to quit for good this time: Cold turkey first, and if that doesn’t work, I’ll taper off starting at half my normal dosage like I took yesterday. I have never tried tapering off before, and am hesitant to do so because I fear I do not have the will power to resist going back to my normal dose. However, I have a very supportive and understanding girlfriend helping me through all of this, and I could always have her watch them for me to make sure I stay at a lower dose. Also, reinforcing what everyone else has been saying on this board, the hardest part when “quitting” for me has always been the psychological despondency and depression that comes as a side effect. In fact, that’s usually been the very thing that’s triggered a relapse (I have experienced little-to-no physical symptoms from quitting). But this time I’m committed – I’ll be depressed the whole summer if it means getting off this stuff. I just don’t want it controlling my life, or my bank account anymore.

Any moral support or advice you guys could give me is much appreciated. Thanks. And good luck to all of you.

10:06 pm April 15th, 2014

I just kicked kratom after a year and a half use 20 to25 grams a day and am now on day 7 and its been way better today days 3 and 4 are the peak of withdraw for me.i used the Thomas recipe for opiate withdraw its been successful so far wow day7 in the bag whoop whoop…

4:07 pm April 16th, 2014

Dynodave– congratulations man. That’s awesome news. Today is day three for me. Speaking in terms of physical withdrawal, it hasn’t been quite the nightmare I expected yet. There were some extreme feelings of restlessness that came and went, as well as a touch of nausea here and there, and I had a pretty bad headache on day 1. Other than that, I feel physically better with every day that passes. It’s the inevitable psychological effects that I’m worried about the most, but I fully intend to stick it out this time. And so far it’s working.

2:51 am April 17th, 2014

@Dynodave – you and I are running pretty close … as today was day 9 for me. I was doing up to 50 grams a day. I am beginning to feel different mentally. I must admit that there are times that I miss it – but I just try not to think about it and keep my mind on other things. I have started to experience some happiness which is something new to me. I started back working out yesterday after a week off. I just had nothing in the tank.
@Bill – personally I think that the key to quitting this stuff is we have to be TOTALLY resigned on the fact that we can NEVER do it again. At least that’s what I’m telling myself … and it’s giving me a feeling of freedom. I wish you all the best of luck.

1:49 pm April 17th, 2014

great @jr im day 9 also, still a little restless arms and legs at night but I hope it gets better as more time passes, I just took spring break off and kicked I really needed to cause I had as bad withdraw as hydro I don’t have quite as much energy but been eating good and taking vitamins but to be honest I don’t want no more kratom because it slowly over time made me a different person and avoid social stuff anyways man I hope all goes well for you its a ride but its doable…

7:28 pm April 17th, 2014

There is a new product out there that I’m thinking could help. It has many herbal supplements that Dustin mentioned plus some more. I have decided to be the board tester as I can not find one bad comment or review about the stuff. Honestly it does sound too good to be true but I have also not found one bit of fraud either. I’ll report back with the name and results I promise.

7:07 pm April 18th, 2014

Are the amounts right though? Many have these products, but they work synergistically and have low amounts of each….

7:45 pm April 18th, 2014

Not sure. I put in my order yesterday and will be getting it tomorrow. Once I do I will post what the ingredients are and how much. Id like your input on it.

4:04 pm April 20th, 2014

ok folks im at day 12 and all ive needed for the last 3 nights is over the counter store brand liquid sleep aid and ive been sleeping im not 100% yet but feeling a whole lot better than even 2 days ago. my feeling on the matter is no matter how much you taper you are still gonna have to bite the bullet and pay the piper detox is just not going to be painless.The first 2 nights after following the Thomas resipe to the T I had a hard time sleeping after that it got better each night now im on kinda a natural high knowing that I set a goal and exercised the self control to overcome the bad parts of my withdraw,anyways ill report back in a couple days and let you all know how I feel then.also I had a blood test right before I quit and my alt and asl liver inzymes were reading extreamly high so im going back in a couple weeks for another blood test and ill let you all know if it had something to do with the kratom or it was something totally different.Happy easter to all and remember the key to your own freedom is you own mind…..

3:45 am April 24th, 2014

I’m just curious as to how long the kratom withdrawal effect will take. I was addicted to heroin for 3 years starting at 16 went to rehab the first week was the most awful thing I experienced. 5 years later started doing roxy 30mg for about year. I got sick of it and heard about kratom and then started taking the kratom but would sometimes fall back into roxy’s for multiple week periods and go back to the kratom. I’ve been taking kratom off and on in between roxy’s for 2 years now. About 32 Vietnam strain kratom a day. I just quit kratom cold turkey I’m on day 2 not feel too bad. I can deal with the aches and pains and short temperament. The hardest part is restless legs and insomnia. Just trying to figure out how much longer I got

9:28 pm April 24th, 2014

I’m so mad at myself for getting in this mess. I’ve been addicted to opiates for three years. My friend gave me some and thats all it took. I am up to 20 15mg a day. I learned of kratom when going through withdrawl a few times and let me tell you withdrawal is pure H***. I’ve used all my money..I’m a single mother and I have to stop letting this monster beat me. I want to stop opiates and kratom. When I take just the kratom it gives me horrible headaches. I’m going to try the taper method for both. The kratom definitely takes withdrawal away but its like it only suppresses it because if you stop kratom you get withdrawl. I take ambien which saved me at night. I’m going to get cymbalta for the depression. All the B vitamins help but you have to take all not just b12. I can’t take off work anymore to deal with withdrawal. I’m so stuck and is controlling my life. Kratom withdrawals aren’t as bad as opiates but they do exist. I take 50 caps of maeng da for it to keep me comfy but if I don’t take it WD comes right back. I won’t dare consider suboxone or rehab. That’s another forum.

1:21 am April 25th, 2014

Good deal Dynodave! I’m on day 16 today. That number seemed so elusive 17 days ago. I know what you mean about the high that you feel just from having some self control. As you said it comes down the freedom of the mind. I personally knew that I couldn’t do it myself. I prayed to the good Lord and told Him that I needed Him and that by faith I was going to “jump off that cliff ….. now catch me.” He has.

8:52 am May 1st, 2014

Thank you all for sharing your stories. I’m going through w/d and have been feeling ridiculous and alone for struggling so much to get past this stupid plant. I got through the physical withdrawal alright but the psychological withdrawal is way more of an insidious challenge. I’ve lost that sense of pride of having something to fight against that I know will pass, like sweating and chills and dizziness and insomnia, and just struggle to make it through the normal steps of the day. Waking up, talking to people, doing my job all seem like intolerable chores. It’s really encouraging to know that the psychological part being drawn out is normal, that I’m not alone, that so many of you have struggled with this and moved forward, and that I will feel normal again too.

10:48 am May 2nd, 2014

ok folks 25 days deep and I would say im back to 100% on all levels the only thing ive noticed that hasn’t passed is every few nights ill wake up soaking wet with night sweats.I still haven’t been back for my follow up blood test but ill let y’all know how that goes. Also ive noticed that I can pee normal once again I had thought it might have been some other problem but the kratom actually made it hard to pee,now im just hoping that between the 4 years of hydro addiction then followed by 2 years of kratom addiction that I haven’t done any long term damage that has not showed up yet…if I can help anyone through please let me know and don’t underestimate the power of positive thinking in the process,im glad I quit and I feel that if you can somehow push yourself to make it to day 5 it starts getting easier after that and at day 10 it gets way better the main thing is wanting to be free, it won’t be painless but like the old saying goes no pain no gain…

11:03 pm May 11th, 2014

ok y’all I am 33 days deep and glad I took the jump all back to normal now , starting to gain interest back in people and things I used to like plus a shit load of confidence knowing I can kick anythings ass that I put my mind to including pain pills and kratom,if I can help anyone kick and help talk them through im here let me know…

12:07 pm May 12th, 2014

Kick ass Dynodave!!

3:00 am May 14th, 2014

My girl was hurting and a friend say to try it and see if it helps with the pain…she took 2 one day and 3 the next day…She’s cramping up n vomiting slightly…locking up….what to do…1st time ever used.

9:58 am May 22nd, 2014

I have had the pleasurable experience of trying kratom one day as I visited a headshop and saw an opportunity for a substance that was presented as a safe legal high. Yeah I wanted to get high am in a program and unable to use other substances due to frequent testing and monitoring. Well it didn’t take long before my addictive behavior took hold of this wonderful option it was great… For a brief period I started researching Kratom and found sites stating that certain manufacturers were spiking Kratom with the metabolite found in tramadol which isn’t on a standard panel but is on a more extensive one. So the anxiety began not only was I obsessive on the Kratom but also on was I going to test positive for other drugs so not only did my money go to Kratom but it now was going to continuously buying at home drug test kits so I could make sure I wasn’t testing positive. A few times the kit tested positive for methadone which is shown that high doses of tramadol can cause false positives for methadone. I was freaking out. But yet the addiction still had ahold of me. So I continued this cycle of using and testing. Well it became to much. The stress and anxiety of am I gonna test positive for something wasn’t worth it. There’s no telling what is in this stuff. If you think about it it could be kratom but more likely adding other substances to it. I speak mostly of these head shop brands. One brand was recalled and shut down by FDA. Needs to be a good reason for that. Another went quiet and you couldn’t get for the longest time to all of a sudden reappear and seem very different t getting headaches and just wasn’t the same. So I quit last dose was like 4am Saturday. And I hAve to say it’s hell. Not so much the psychological symptoms but the physical symptom my body aches, the restlessness and anxiety sleeping for an hour and then waking back up to not be able to return to sleep. These symptoms are all the motivation I need to never do this again. I’ve used hardcore narcs and have never felt like this for so long usually a few days but nothing like coming off Kratom. Was taking anywhere from 32-40 caps a day of headshop kratom. It can be a blessing if used responsibly but let’s face it for something like Kratom to catch your interest is a sign in itself your a user and the potential for addiction is already in your favor no matter what u think your willpower is. I regret trying it. So I say for anyone looking to try tread very carefully. These symptoms have me feeling will this never go away. It’s a great herb but I think it should be controlled an 18 year old is going to do just what they expect use and become addicted. Stay away. I hope they do ban it. Theres no telling exactly what could be added to it and your under the impression it’s legal and safe. Not if there’s something in it that Noone is aware of. And no way to tell. So props and good luck to everyone quitting. It’s a bi!(? But we deserve it and can use it as a reminder when we think a bout picking up a bag of the stuff.

Kratom idiot
10:33 pm May 23rd, 2014

I’m on day 15 clean after a year long stent of 6-8 OPMS Kratom tablets a day. First 4 days was ROUGH. Restless legs, horrible anxiety, zero sleep regardless of what I took. Now that I am two weeks into it I can proudly say that I will NEVER go down this road again. I would also like to ad that at 15 days in I am not even close to 100% yet. Though the initial severe WD’s have subsided now I struggle with a off and on flu feeling that I treat with over the counter pain killers (Ibprofen, alive, etc.) At night I am able to sleep with Meltonin. Depression seems to be also fading away also. I still spend a good bit of my free time laying down watching tv waiting for the time to pass / healing process.

If I can offer one word of encouragement is eventually I will be back to normal. I expect like other posts, around 30 days. I look forward to a drug free life. Being dependent on chemicals sucks!

Stephen Geraci
4:35 pm May 27th, 2014

Kratom withdrawal is real and is definitely no joke. I used kratom to get off vicodin. It worked, but I basically traded vicodin with kratom. I became more addicted to kratom than vicodin. It was 3 years of daily use and I would not have stopped if I didn’t get really sick after trying kratom from a new vendor. That was my wakeup call. Plus in those three years I’m guessing I spent about $15,000. Yes I was a heavy user. This is my 7th day of not using. The first 3 days I had the typical flu like symptoms. I was able to deal with them. The depression and detachment was just very surreal and the anxiety came in waves and at points took my breath away and thought I was going to lose my mind. The worst part which is still with me is the RLS in my arms and legs. I am also experience something that feels like my heart is beating through my hands. The depression and anxiety have subsided and are not that noticeable, but the RLS in my arms and legs and the insomnia is still very real. I probably slept 5 hours this entire week. I know I will never go back to using kratom or anything else for that matter, but I just want to be able to sleep and get rid of this RLS. If you are thinking about using kratom, please run away from this stuff. I thought it was safe because I bought it from Amazon. Now they no longer sell it. Please people stay away from kratom no matter what the internet says.

2:13 pm June 3rd, 2014

I started using kratom after I got into some legal problems and couldn’t drink or use any recreational drugs anymore. I was happy, motivated and my employer loved me because I could get jobs done fast and efficeintly and never got tired, until I got home. Kept using it after I got off of probation. I would still be taking it, but the local head shop has been having a hard time keeping it in stock so they raised thier prices. It’s a horrible feeling to be so dependant on something that you will drive 30 miles just to get it. It rules your life and I would stop on my way home from work every 3-4 days. I was taking a form of kratom called Full Spectrum produced by a company called O.P.Ms. It would cost me $106 for twenty capsules and I would take about 4-5 a day. Then they increased the price a dollar a pill. I was already spending at least $200 a week to support this habbit, I could afford it but I was pissed that they would do that to their customers, and most of all me after being a loyal customer for at least a year. The only business’ that can get away with doing that are drug dealers and insurance companies. I am going to do everything in my power to get this substance banned in Michigan. You might as well be selling Vicodin. I am on day 2 of being off of kratom, last night was misery with no sleep and restless body syndrome and the second you wake up after falling asleep you are up for the day with no going back to sleep. I had to call into work this morning. Another effect of kratom, which I haven’t read anybody else report, is that it will kill your sex drive and cause major problems with your significant other. I will post an update tomorrow, today isn’t too bad as far as wd symptoms.

12:52 am June 11th, 2014

Hi everyone, Hoping somewhere here can help me out. I have been struggling trying to get off opiates, then suboxone, back to opiates (thinking withdrawal would be shorter by “weaning”) weaning obviously didnt work. So back to a 2 week short suboxone stint, then to Kratom 4 days then short lived relapse on opiates….for 5 days then back to Kratom for 2 days now. Just being honest putting it all out there :/ I know…..ridiculous. It is what it is. I just want off everything. The kratom stops the withdrawal for the past two days Ive only taken it 3 times a day, 1 tsp day one 3x day then maybe 1/2 tsp 3x day 2. The kratom is just nasty… I cant do it much longer. My mouth waters and I get nauseous when I smell it now and just look at it. Its pretty tortorous but Im trying to take the easiest route out. Tired of being sick…..tired of the extreme ups and downs. Im new with the Kratom how long can I take this low dose to prevent wd from opiates….yet avoid dependance on the kratom? Ive been “feeling” things out between kratom doses…feeling slightly less chills in between…..hoping within 2-3 more days if I wake up feeling decent I can just stop and have no wd from the kratom. If I steadily lower my dose daily is there a chance I can accomplish this? I have yet to get high from this stuff……Ive researched in advance and got pretty scared reading these comments 🙂 thanks I guess for saving me from another habit. Taking the time writing your struggles really raised that red flag that MAYBE all these kratom vendors are just taking advantage of our desperate need for a cure. I just want off it all :/ I have 3 kids that need their Mom back. Just want to enjoy a normal life and be free and happy again..Thanks for reading…

10:23 pm June 14th, 2014

Wow Matt’s mad because his vendor double the price on him so he wants it banned so no one can get it. How bout order it online. U see most kratom users can wait for their stuff unlike u who had to drive 40mi like a junkie and anxiously wait for ur drugs. I think it’s u who has the problem not the person selling it. All the head shops charge double. That’s why you don’t go there.

5:50 pm June 16th, 2014

well peeps im about 70 days clean off kratom and all is well I don’t really think about it or desire it or have any physical stuff left over the only thing im noticing and maybe some people whom have been clean awhile can relate….im noticing that nothing gets me excited anymore like everything is boring like stuff I like to do like go to the beach with family or I drag race a lot and its just is not making me happy or excited anyone else experiencing anything close to this and if so does it end at some point ?. anyways im glad I quit and to anyone still struggling set a goal for 5 days and you’ll be past the worst part…I used the Thomas recipe google it,it worked for me after about 2 years of daily use…ya’ll have a good one and looking forward to some responses to my post…

6:04 pm June 16th, 2014

Really Matt? No one twisted your arm and made you try Kratom. You know you can buy it online from trusted vendors for a fraction of the cost that you pay in head shops. Some vendors even offer usps express shipping and you can have your order the next day. Or choose priority mail and have it in 2 days. You made yourself a slave to it. It is no one else’s fault. So now you feel everyone should be punished because your local headshop is taking advantage of customers? Speak with your wallet and don’t shop there. Plan ahead, buy in bulk and for heavens sake stop playing the martyr!

4:52 pm June 19th, 2014

@dynodave I have the same feelings. My Kratom dosing was something I looked forward to. It had become the highlight of my day! I have cut back to using Kratom only in the morning and sometimes I would just rather sleep until the next time I can take it. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t feel hopeless but I don’t look forward to things as much anymore. But my wallet was taking the hit before and now I am actually saving some money. I hope in 6 months that I can say that things really do get better. And this is coming from a pretty heavy user that has cut way back. My daily dose is for me to ensure that the RLS doesn’t keep me awake at night.

6:54 pm June 19th, 2014

I became a slave to Kratom for a good 3 years (16 grams per day at the end) after I used it (initially) to kick opiates that were prescribed through the course of a couple herniated disc surgeries. One week ago I cut up my credit card, took a final 1/2 tablespoon dose after a 3-4 day taper and prepared for the worst. It was absolutely hell on earth. Everything closed in on me mentally (anxiety and depression) and I couldn’t regulate my body temperature (probably RLS). On day 2 I decided I had to tell someone what was happening or I would have kratom in my home again within a day or so. Long story short: Let someone know what’s going on. Just knowing you’ve got someone within reach to reinforce that you are not insane and that you are not dying.

I did find that Kava Kava Root will take the edge off the WD. Whomever suggested the Vitamin B (Complex) and 5-Htp I send a hearty thank you. Any relief is good relief from Kratom withdrawals. Whomever started this blog, I am forever in your debt.

1:33 pm June 20th, 2014

@Matt. I understand your frustration but you need to understand that not everyone is in your shoes. First, as someone else said, never get it from a head shop. A trusted vendor online will sell it for a fraction of the cost. Secondly, several thousand people live a better life because if it. Some people stop using heroin. Please buddy, this is a board to guide people through the withdrawal process. Don’t try to ban something that thousands of responsible users take to lead a better life. Good luck.

11:36 am June 22nd, 2014

@ dynodave
What is with your liver enzyms? Do you had a second blood test?

2:44 am June 25th, 2014

@csg yes I did have a second blood test and the kratom did have my enzymes elevated maybe not everyone but it did show up in my liver panel then after I was clean 55 days I had another and my enzymes were back to normal…

7:09 pm June 26th, 2014

Kratom can do so much like pain relieving, reducing an anxiety, stimulating effects etc. These are the reason why some people are having a hard time getting rid of it. Also, study shows that the only great risk in using a kratom is that you tend to sleep for long hours. But, using it in irresponsible way will surely make things worse.

11:28 pm June 28th, 2014

Kratom can be a great thing if used responsibly. I, unfortunately, am not able to have such responsibility when around such things. I am in the minority in this case I believe. As such, I leave the conversation for scheduling/banning/controlling of this substance to other people AND to other forums or blogs.

I wish those suffering from Kratom withdrawal the best of luck. I am into week #4 without Kratom and feel fabulous. Why do I always feel the need to be “on” something. Crazy, no?

4:53 pm June 29th, 2014

I too have attempted to stop using kratom with no success. I had occasionally used kratom off and on for quite some time and never noticed any withdrawal symptoms. I guess it started becoming a regular daily habit from about six to eight months ago. I began to realize that I felt terrible the day after I would run out and felt this way until my next order of kratom arrived. I was not positive if these symptoms were caused by the lack of Kratom at first because at the same time I often was taking a break from my regular prescription medication of Dexedrine (an amphetamine I take for focus and energy, but quickly gain a tolerance to so I take breaks). I didn’t know if the kratom only eased my Dexedrine withdrawal symptoms or if they caused their own symptoms. Here recently I have realized that I am sadly and definitely dependent on Kratom. I used to order it only once or twice a month and each order would last me four or five days. I have now gotten to a point that I panic when I start to run low or if I know there will be days waiting fort new order to come in. I am spending WAY too much money on this habit. If I go with out Kratom, I first notice this weird hot/cold thing I do. My core will feel completely over heated and I will sweat like crazy, but I will get chills and feel freezing at the same time. It is the worst while laying in bed. I am freezing with out being covered, but sweat tremendously with the lightest of covering. It is absolutely MISERABLE! Now I know I HAVE to stop. I am so scared though. I don’t know how to do if. I don’t feel comfortable reaching out to my family about this, because I feel they will be more judgmental and “I told you so” like, than supportive. Especially my husband. Don’t get me wrong, he is a wonderful man, but he doesn’t now and I don’t think ever will he understand this type of problem. He will just get mad. My other issue is I am a mother of an almost two year old girl and however many days it will take for me to be out of commission while in withdrawal just aren’t possible with an active toddler to take care of. I also notice depression as a symptom I get and I am terrified at the thought of having prolonged depression. I just don’t know what to do!

4:32 am July 2nd, 2014

I’ve used kratom daily for over 2 years, and the Kratom withdrawals that I’ve experienced so far are: anxiety, GI upset (nausea, vomiting, diarrhea), flu-like symptoms, (fever, severe myalgia, fatigue), irritability, paranoia, unable to concentrate, and hypersomnia.
Nothing I tried helped any of these withdrawal symptoms, except of course kratom.
I thought I had severe food poisoning and almost went to the ER, but it was just kratom withdrawals which I didn’t know at the time. I started to feel better on day 3, and probably would have recovered completely on day 4, but since I thought I had food poisoning I took some kratom at the end of day 3, which started the addiction back up.
I’m still on kratom a year later, and have been unsuccessful in trying to find a pleasant way to stop it. My wife is a pharmacist and she currently doesn’t know of anything that will help with these terrible withdrawals, but she has been researching the subject.

11:05 pm July 4th, 2014

Hi guys! I am about to start trying to stop using Kratom for the second time. I am nervous, I have one week to get over the physical symptoms because I go on vacation next Friday. I have been addicted to many things in my life including Xanax, methadone, morphine, and adderall. My worst withdrawal was suboxone; I almost died when I came off that because I got so dehydrated. I tapered off the Kratom with some success I slipped on three of my doses and took more due to horrible menstrual cramps. I don’t know why I am so nervous considering I have kicked much stronger stuff on my own. Today is my first day without Kratom and so far I feel ok but depressed. I had a friend show up out of nowhere and offer me 60 mg of morphine because he knows I have such bad pain sometimes I can’t function. I took all of it, though I probably should not have so for now, I am not feeling the withdrawals. It is strange because I have not taken morphine in like 3 years but even at 60 mg I don’t feel it. I am going to try and write everyday this week detailing my withdrawals at least I tapered off to some extent cutting my dose by more than half in the last 10 days I hope it made a difference even though I slipped a few times during the process. I did feel withdrawals while I tapered some nights I could not even get even a few minutes of rest. The real test begins tomorrow and the only thing I plan to use to aid the process is over the counter sleeping aids. Guys wish me luck and I will try and post even though I will be feeling pretty shitty. I have given up much harder drugs and I usually use the cold turkey method so only time will tell. I am not saying I want to stop anything forever I just want to break the chain of physical dependency I have developed with Kratom. Something I never thought could happen. I am a drug addict for sure but it takes a long time for me to become addicted to something even the hardest of substances. For some reason after only a few months of taking Kratom it became something I needed to take everyday to avoid physical withdrawal. It took more than 4 years for me to develop a physical dependency to Percocet! WTF!

6:03 pm July 9th, 2014

I wanted to post a little update and I hope someone may be able to offer me some help/advice. So since my last post, I had decided that my current supply would be my last. That I would taper off my supply and cut back my dose amounts until I had finished it off… Yeah, that didn’t happen. I am prescribed Dexedrine and Xanax and I thought that these two meds could help me to successfully quit Kratom and ease the withdrawal symptoms. They did ease them to an extent. The horrible cold sweats/chills and just not being able to regulate my body temperature seems to be eased maybe even completely. That aspect of my withdrawal is truly excruciating for me. However, I am soooo depressed and I have no ambition or motivation to do much of anything, even with taking a fairly high dosage of an Amphetamine. I feel like my Dexedrine doesn’t work as well with out the Kratom. Kratom seems to mellow out any of the irritability I may get from the Dexedrine and give me motivation to do things and interest/enjoyment of life in general. I feel so sad that I have to take substances just to feel happy and normal. My beautiful little daughter brings me so much joy, don’t get me wrong, but I lack the energy and motivation to get out and do things with her if I am not on some sort of substance. It may also be useful for me to mention that I have hypothyroidism, meaning my thyroid doesn’t function properly or produce enough of the thyroid hormone that my body needs. Due to this, lack of energy and depression have been things I have dealt with my entire life. Even as a small child I remember being soooo tired and just going straight to sleep when I would get home from school… Often even falling asleep at school as well. I have been on thyroid medicine for almost 10 years now and it has definitely helped, but I still have symptoms of low thyroid despite the blood work showing that my levels are with in normal range. Synthetic thyroid hormone is just no comparison to the natural hormone that your body is intended to produce…. Back to my attempt to stop Kratom. I didn’t even last 24 hrs. It took a few frustrating situations in a row along with some depression, and off I went to a local store that carries Kratom. Once it kicked in, it was like night and day in regards to how I felt. I had energy. I got the urge and ambition to prepare a delicious meal for my family…. I guess I became what is normal for most people. That on its own is so depressing to me. This particular batch of Kratom happened to wear off very quickly, and when it did, my depression returned with a vengeance! This morning I broke down and ordered another shipment of Kratom from one of my trusted online vendors. 🙁 There is one more thing that may be helpful to mention so that you guys can understand me and my situation as best possible. I have Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. At the age of 20, 10 years ago this year, I found my fiancé after he had been brutally beaten to death with a baseball bat. Sorry for the graphic description, but unfortunately that is what happened. So I guess with all of this information I have provided, one could see that I struggle and hopefully can understand why. So now I ask myself what in the world do I do? Should I try again and be more disciplined? Should I be relieved that I have found something that truly makes me feel happy and able to accomplish things? If I decide to stick with Kratom, that doesn’t change the fact that I have become addicted to a substance that I am spending ridiculously too much money on. It doesn’t change the fact that I feel awful withdrawal symptoms with out it. And what if the FDA does successfully outlaw Kratom in the States. I am truly open to any comments, suggestions, recommendations, anything….. Even just words of empathy and understanding if nothing else. Just to feel like I am not alone would do me wonders I think. Thanks in advance! 🙂

5:22 pm July 10th, 2014

Dana message me on Kratom Addiction on facebook…. I might be of some help you don’t have to like the page didn’t make the facebook page to get likes just started it to help myself get through this… I think it helps to have a direct connection to help with the process… I’m willing to help:)

7:38 am July 11th, 2014

Here’s the link from the page Kratom Addiction on Facebook, for your convenience:

10:21 pm July 11th, 2014

I began using kratom for the third time in September of 2013. I’ve used up to and exceeding 35 grams daily as tea, dosing regularly at 1-2 hr intervals upon waking, throughout the day and finally before bed. It helped me sleep and greatly improved my mood. Kratom helped me through an extremely difficult time in my marriage and living situation. Suddenly it stopped working for me. July 5, 2014 I began crying uncontrollably for no reason and was unable sleep at all. I began having nightmares, insomnia, panic attacks, unending depressive spells and thoughts of suicide. I slept a total of 7 hrs in 3 days. Never once did I think kratom was the reason. I was. I overused. I no longer felt the effects and put off w/d by dosing more frequently. I figured quitting might help so on July 9, 2014 around 5:30pm I flushed the remainder I had (Bali) and waited for w/d to start and almost immediately they did. I was unable to sleep at all and was extremely lethargic and unmotivated. I hit an all time low. Amazingly I went to work the next morning with no sleep and had to sit in an all day meeting. I can only begin to describe the extreme discomfort and negative thoughts I was having, figiting in my chair for 10 hours. Cramping started in my legs and proceeded to my shoulders. I feel it all over. Cramping, stiffness and insomnia. I was able to sleep for 6 hours 1 day and a half after stopping. At 48 hrs I was a little better. I humored myself by taking 2 Aleve. I think I beat it but am still very tired and stiff. Walking is difficult. I have begun eating again. I lost a total of 34lbs in 10 months of using. I cannot moderate. It just doesn’t work for me.

5:41 am July 12th, 2014

For the RLS problem I suggest taking magnesium supplements, and for the lethargy I suggest vitamin B (particularly the liquid sublingual form) and also vitamin D. If you are ok with caffeine, then I would recommend plenty of that as well. I use kratom regularly or my arthritis and sometimes there’s a break in supply which causes these annoying symptoms, and that’s how I handle them. For the insomnia I like passionflower extract. For psychologically feeling low and blue about life: this may sound silly, but it works: If you go for a walk outdoors of 30 to 60 minutes duration each day, it helps in two ways. One is the sunlight on your skin. It helps by stimulating various brain chemicals and hormones. The second way is by oxygenating your brain and muscles. If you combine all these things, you can make it through withdrawals with a minimum of suffering. 🙂

1:31 am July 13th, 2014

Ana, please get your head out of your a**. You don’t know what you are talking about. I don’t even know where to begin.

The reason kratom was banned in Thailand is because it was getting people off of opium which was the backbone to their economy. It was saving people and the leaders of Thailand didn’t like that at all (very similar to what is happening in the USA now). Since then, they have evolved and it’s now being legalized in Thailand again!

Let me be very clear to all of you. Kratom is a good thing, period. Sorry you got addicted, but you can get addicted to anything. Don’t blame kratom. It has saved many, MANY lives and aids people in more ways that I can possibly list.

9:44 pm July 30th, 2014

Hi there, I’m really hoping you still check this page. I’m going thru withdraws right now. Severely depressed moods and panic atacks. Muscle cramps. Most I can handle other than the stomach cramps. I feel very low. I started with confessing what I was doing with my fiancé then to my family. My last intake was Thursday night(July 24, 2014). I used about 15g of maeng da powder every day for about 4 months. 2 months before I was only using at late night to sleep, then one day it got me. I’m still very much feeling the withdraws but only due to me taking small amounts of Vicodin at night to help with the cramps. Dumb thought, I know. Now it’s only dragged this out longer. I read on the withdrawal blog that Xanax could help so I just took a very small dose and it’s helping with the panic attacks. I am a recovering alcoholic with over 5 years without a drink. I just slipped, just like a good addict. Good news is I have no desire to drink. That’s not an option. I’m taking this pretty hard. Weak willed I guess. Sorry for the novel. I just had to talk to someone who’s been thru it. I went to two AA meetings there just to try and clear my mind but the detox process didn’t help at all. And considering no one knows what kratom is I feel alone. But I know I’m not. Please responded if you’re still out there. Thank you.

11:18 pm July 31st, 2014

This message is for Help. I truly understand what you are going through. I quit using Kratom almost 11 months ago. Like you, I am a recovering alcoholic. I started using Kratom to ease the vicodin withdrawl (which I stupidly started taking after 10 years of sobriety). At that time I thought I could never have a problem with pills because I was an alcoholic and had never used pills before. I was wrong big time! After about 2 years of using vicodin, I finally told my AA sponsor what I had been doing and told her I wanted to quit. I set a new recovery date and stopped the vicodin use. However, I was really scared of the withdrawls from the pills. I read about Kratom and how it could ease them. Also, I read that it was not addictive. At that time, I had not found this blog so in my mind it was perfectly safe (I was wrong). I had planned on using it for a short time and then easing off. of it. However, with my addictive nature, I just continued to use more and more. Anyway, early last September I had enough. I was spending waaay too much money on Kratom, and was tired of being a slave to it. I stopped using it cold turkey. I found this blog and read posts from other people that had gone through Kratom withdrawl. This gave me an idea of what to expect. That first month was literally hell. I felt like I had a month long cold, had the chills, was tired yet couldn’t sleep at night. I had restless leg syndrome at night and just felt like I was going to crawl out of my skin. The worst part was the depression. It was like nothing I had felt before. I felt extreme hopelessness. I didn’t enjoy doing anything. Also, I thought about Kratom all the time. Once again, I told my AA sponsor that I had been using Kratom. Of course she had no idea what t was but she encouraged me to quit, set a new recovery date, and attend more meetings (which I did). This helped quite a bit. However, what really helped was just time. After the first month I felt a glimmer of hope. I wish I could say that I felt great and my life was back to normal, after that first month but it wasn’t. I had taken Kratom for a long time and in high doses so I knew it was going to take me quite awhile until I started feeling like myself again. I am not sure exactly at what point I stopped thinking about Kratom or craving it but it was probably around 6 months. You took Kratom for a much shorter period of time and at lower doses (it sounds like) than I did. Not sure if it is true, but I read that withdrawls are worse and last longer if person has taken Kratom (like me). So hopefully your withdrawls won’t last as long as mine did. In my opinion, quitting drinking was much easier than quitting Kratom. I took a sleep aid that first month to help me fall asleep. I probably would have taken Xanax if I had some but looking back, I am afraid I might have become addicted to that as well. That’s just me though, not everyone has the same addictive nature that I have. As time went by, I slowly started getting my life back. Now, I hardly ever think about Kratom (except in passing). I feel so much better and am feel like I got my life back. I do not want to ever forget how horrible that first month was for me coming off Kratom. The following 5 months were no picnic, but they were nothing like the first 30 days. I don’t ever want to go through that again. Just know that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Don’t give up! It does and will get better!

2:39 am August 1st, 2014

Diane. Thank you for responding. I know all to much about addiction. I was the same way, looked it up first and read all this stuff on how great it was. I was wrong. I’m just happy I never strayed to far from my sobriety. But I am having a very difficult time going through the depression. I can’t talk to anyone at AA because they just don’t understand. My biggest fear for relapse is because of the depression. I don’t want to drink, I don’t want to use Kratom. I just want to stop the crying spells. It doesn’t help that I haven’t slept a full night. I’m really confused on why I’m having such a hard time because I was taking a lot less than most and for a short time. I’ve been thru some pretty rough withdrawals but I feel this takes the cake. Might just be because I’m going through it right now. I do have a supporting family that believes in me. I know it gets better. Hard to look forward when you’re fighting minute to minute. I feel so stupid. Thank you again for your response.

11:26 am August 1st, 2014

@Help…I quit using kratom after a 2 year run with it and had used it to come off of a 4 or 5 year hydrocodone habit I used about 20 grams a day and I bought it online in bulk so it was cheaper for me than if I smoked cigarettes (which I don’t) anyways the first 5 days were the worst I had all the symptoms people talk about and especially depression. after the first 5 the second five were easier just set goals for 5 days at a time don’t look to far ahead maybe the vicodin is making a little worse for you right now but it does get better.I do know this it is a mind over matter thing you can do it!!! you can go up this page and find where I quit cause I posted as I was going through it,i quit april 8 2014 . I know everyone is different but I would say after about 25 or 30 days I was all back to normal.I did plenty of exercise took plenty of vitamins took plenty of showers and of course read the hell out of this blog..i wish you luck on your journey..(YOU GOT THIS) if you quit on the 24th the worst part is over and the depression should be packing his bags as we speak,it took about two weeks and the worst of the depression had subsided and do any and everything to keep your mind busy and doing other things besides dwelling on kratom..have a nice day and we are here if ya need us…

4:35 pm August 1st, 2014

@Dynodave. Thank you for your response. I have been reading your post. I only took 9 Vicodin over the course of 3 days. 4 the first night, then 3 the second, and finally 2 on the third. I’m saying this because I hope the next person doesn’t try this. It only prolonged the wd. On the forth I took a very small dose of Xanax, and I mean very small. After that I didn’t take anymore. The depression is getting a little better. I just woke up but only slept maybe three hours. The nights are so long. I didn’t want to take melatonin last night because with any sleep meds for me, if I don’t fall asleep before the kick in it made it worse. Figured I’d fight through a few more nights. I know that is not helping with the depression. I made it through night 7 and on day 8 as of now. My family and loved ones are still very suportive, just hurting to see me go through this. I’m well aware of what I am, a drug addict alcoholic. I have to always remember that. No more “safe substances” as I’ve very much learned a lesson. The good news is my will to stay clean has dragged me this far. Yeah I think about it, but more in a nagative way. For me that is. Anyone is free to do what they want. I’ve always been a big believer in that. I’m just so grateful you all were here to help me through this. I’m not feeling the best physically but it’s not near as bad as the days before. Having y’all two write back gives me a something to look forward to. Again, I couldn’t be more thankful for that. I’ve been honest with my job and they are very suportive. Luckily I’ve always been an open book about my addiction so they have only seen the real, sober me. Still a little bummed about throwing away 5 years. But I’m still very thankful I didn’t pick a drink or any other thing other than kratom for that matter. Anyways, I’m rambling. Thank you all for being here for suport. The power of another human being is the best medicin. I’m looking forward to hearing from anyone. Just give something to think about. Thank you again.

5:19 pm August 1st, 2014

I have been using very high quality powder every day for nearly 4 years. Yes I’m addicted. However, I’ve decided it does me much more good then bad. Also, it doesn’t cost that much so I wonder about all the posts talking about how expensive it is… Do you get it from an expensive source?

Anyhoo, to those who want to quit (especially the recent posts who will prob come back to read this) don’t try to quit cold turkey! Are you NUTS?! Yes the withdrawal sucks. I’ve gotten it on late packages waiting for them to arrive. It’s not fun (though real opiate withdrawal from strong opiates is worse). If you want to quit, taper off, trust me. Just use less and less each day to the point of minor tiny amounts. To do it properly (without staying addicted) stretch it out properly. Even if it takes a whole month, take less and less (in small incriments) and it will work. Ta Da! No withdrawal and you quit. I however, have 0 interest in quitting. I love the stuff. Kratom for life!

Good luck!

4:52 am August 2nd, 2014

@Cam…get my head outa my A**??? DUDE…I wasn’t talking about me this whole time! My son has been addicted to Kratom for over 2-1/2 years and guess what? HE’S DEAD! I’m 20 years sober through 12-step and if you don’t think this is a deadly drug, you are headed down the same path!! He was my only son, my only child and I’m gonna fight like hell to make sure this drug is banned within the whole US. So, you better get your head outa your a** and buy as much as you can, while you can still get it legally, cuz I’m on this, LIKE WHITE ON RICE DUDE!!

6:15 am August 2nd, 2014

@cam. Do what you gotta do. That’s not for me. I have to pick up my sack and walk back through the doors I came from. Cold turkey was the way to go. I’m not great, but I’m also not on K ether. Just got through day 8. My addiction wasn’t as bad as some(not saying that makes me a better person, we are all here for the same result), but detox was still hell on earth. No wd is fun. If you can taper down, my hats of to you. But tapering down, for me, ment being on that shit still. I came hear because I wanted help, and I found it. I could never repay that other than try to continue to share my story. I got a solid 2 hour work out in tonight and it got me out of my head. Helped so much. I’m grateful to be breathing today. I’ve always got to remember that. I’m doing “FINE” now. I guess we will see how it goes. Hoping for a good nights sleep tonight. @Ana. I’m sorry for your loss, if you truly work a 12step program then I feel you shouldn’t be arguing with someone on this. I get that you want to get the message out there, but sounds like your living in your will. I wish everyone the best of luck and keep you in my thoughts. I hope you will do the same for me. Even if this gets read 10 years down the road by someone. I heard a some last night about herion withdraw, which I remember all to well, “silence is the dirtiest trick in life”. Be honest with loved ones. And most importantly be honest with yourself. I kicked herion at the age of 20 on a bathroom floor. No vitamins, no sleep aid. Just me and my thoughts. I haven’t touched it since. That was eight years ago. I just have to remember, this to shall pass. I know I don’t know a single person on here but I care for you. I was reading comments from the past and just thought, I hope they are still living free from this. Thank you again.

2:13 pm August 2nd, 2014

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
and the WISDOM…to KNOW the difference
I AM IN 12 step and a “DOUBLE WINNER”! I didn’t have to pick up over this loss. I understand addiction coming from both sides now. I held my son in my arms right before his last detox and treatment and as he cried like a Baby bc his body ached and his mind was so tormented…I told him how much I loved him. I had worked detox and I knew he was just as the addicts I had seen everyday in detox for opiates. He was ashamed, he was hurting, he felt guilt and remorse…but he told me after getting clean off the Kratom a little over 90 days…”Mom…you were so supportive of me…you did and said EVERYTHING I needed to hear that day. Once he was clean l…we styed in touch nearly every day and he wanted to present me with my 20 year medallion but he had to work! I still have the voice message he left telling me how proud he was of me and how he knew I was going to give an awesome speech upon picking up that medallion. He said he was so sorry he couldn’t be there but he would be praying for me and that he knew I would be helping save so many lives. This is the only “voice message” I have of my son since April 16th, 2014. All other messages are texts. I miss him every day and I will do what I need to do my friend…regardless of whether or not anyone here or anywhere else says that “it can’t be done”….I a MOM of a dead son and I’m not very happy about that! Can I change that? No…absolutely not but there are some things I can change and will continue to do so, so that no other parent has to bury their child bc of a deadly legal designer drug like this one.

3:22 pm August 3rd, 2014

Let’s remain accurate; Kratom is not a designer drug. It is the ground leaf of a naturally growing plant. Like many prescription substances, some people use it as medicine with no problems, and some people become addicted; some people have good reasons to stop using it. Somehow I missed it in the posts; *how* did your son die? I read that he stopped using kratom for 90 days, and then that he had passed away. I did not see how he passed away or whether it was related to the usage of any drug, or a car wreck , or any number of other things or combination of things. Is it okay to ask that, or is that too personal of a question?

3:25 pm August 3rd, 2014

@Ana-can you briefly help me understand what happened to your son? I have had a 3 year heavy Kratom habit, within the last 3 months I have limited my usage to 10 grams each morning & evening. I had previously used 3 times that amount several times daily and was spending the money that should have been used for clothing for myself & my son. The rent and car I always made sure to pay so that I could work and provide for us. But Kratom was sucking every penny that could have been used for fun things for my son.

So I’ve gotten my usage lowered and it’s so nice not living pay to pay! However, I have yet to make the jump. It’s become such a part of my routine, the one thing I count on to start my day and function as a mother should. All that being said, I have never felt inclined to try any other drugs or ever overdosed on Kratom. My problem is that I enjoy Kratom. I started Kratom to kick an addiction to opiates. I was able to successfully kick the pills (woohoo!) but I created another monster. I’m glad to have my Kratom usage more under control but I do long for the days when I was ignorant to the feeling of addiction. Perhaps I should read this blog more often to find inspiration and support.

Ana I am truly sorry for your loss. My only child, a son, is 10 years old and I feel so blessed to have been given a wonderful boy. I admire your accomplishments, something to really be proud of. I just wanted to know how Kratom affected his life so terribly.

8:11 pm August 3rd, 2014

You sound like a strong and sensible person. You know what is right for you. If that’s the best way for you to go, then I wish you all the best. Good luck

Kratom had nothing to do with the death of your son (if it’s even true, it was something else which took his life). Kratom has never killed anyuone, ever, period. Also, you will have 0 impact on the legal status of kratom (especially for me since I live in Canada). You have no effect on me at all, ever. Have a nice day and good luck with whatever problems you are having…

12:23 pm August 4th, 2014

Ana, I’m afraid I have to agree with Cam. I read your posts (including your ones from a while back). You are an extremist and you don’t really know what you are talking about. Kratom isn’t the evil designer drug that killed your son. It’s legal in most places around the world. All this nonsense you said –

“it deludes you, it lies to you, it robs your family from you, it isolates you, it will cause your dreams and hopes for your future to all go away, you will steal and tell lies for it, you will long for your days when you weren’t addicted to it…when your life was simple…when you slept at night peacefully… I HOPE US gov BANS THE CRAP OUT OF THIS”…

Really Ana? In fact, kratom often gives people their life back… I’m sorry, I can’t take you seriously so I’ll just stop there. Have a nice day.

5:59 pm August 4th, 2014

Here’s my 2 cents, I myself feeling that kratom should not be banned. Moderation is the key to everything, I myself could not moderate kratom so I had to quit. But, there are people that can moderate and there are people that use it to get off stronger stuff and get their life back. I myself have seen both sides of the stick and don’t see how it could possibly be responsible for someones death. Even though I can’t use it, it does have it’s place. There are a lot worse things people could be doing so who am I to judge…

4:58 am August 5th, 2014

Here I am. I think I’m through the worst of the wd. Feels like it’s been forever. Now time to get my mind right. Thank you everyone for helping me through it. That shit is rough. As far as being a good thing or a bad, that’s not my war to fight. I have my own problems. Today hope was high. Everyday is indeed, getting better. It’s hard to remember/think that when you’re in the shit, but there is a brighter tomorrow if you stick it out. If you don’t, you’re going to have to go through that shit again. I hope I never forget this experience. Because it sucked. That’s what I need to remind me this stuff is NOT ok for me. Anyway, thanks again for the help.

11:27 am August 5th, 2014

@help how are you now ? if I figure right you should have about 2 weeks in…it should be getting a lot better now. and I know what you mean this board does help a lot I also had a member of this board stay in touch via facebook the whole time I was in withdraw and that helped a lot to,just keep on keeping on cause I know that at about 25 days or so I was all back to normal…my normal that is…

9:34 pm August 6th, 2014

@dynodave I’m on day 13. Still have a few cramps. Sleep really haven’t been there. I got some blood test done to see if any damage was done because there’s been some pains in my kidneys. Biggest thing I’m dealing with is remorse. I didn’t get on kratom to help withdrawal from something else, I got on it because I’m a drug addict. I’m okay with that. I just have to always remember that if I have any glimps of hope of never going through this again. After 5 years of being off everything I forgot that. The Dr gave me sleep meds which at this point I’m refusing to take. I’m not sure if that’s making matters worse, not getting any sleep. Right now I’m just getting up after a few hours of sleep and telling myself I’m not going to take that today and getting back into my 12 step program. I won’t go into that because that’s not what this blog is about. There is hope, just have to remember that. As long as I don’t pick back up. That’s where the true problem is. Thanks everyone, again.

12:08 pm August 10th, 2014

Doctors are the main reason people are using sir are suggesting a doctors help to get off a natural alternative for pain and depression. The drugs that will be used to help are addicting themselves. wow…

8:52 am August 15th, 2014

Well, day 21 down. I thought very little about Kratom all day. The joy in little things are starting to come back. I’m still having trouble sleeping, but I’ve always had insomnia when left to my own. Starting to smile more and keeping my head up for each day to come. The mornings I would say are the hardest but after a few hours it gets better. Things are looking up. I am forever in dedt to this blog.

4:08 am August 18th, 2014

“Kratom leaf twice a day”
This statement is equivalent at saying I had two drinks a day.
Is there a way the author of this experience could quantify his or her usage?

As has been mentioned those in physical and behavioral health know little to nothing about kratom as it is. Even an anecdotal account like this might be helpful to taken seriously, if you will if pertinent details about the addiction were less generic

6:09 pm August 22nd, 2014

Not sure if this post is still being managed, but wanted to let you know I appreciate it. I started kratom as a way to get off the harder stuff. It worked great, allowed to me continue to work without missing a beat. It’s been about 5 months now and it’s fine to get off the kratom. I’ve got a lot of excitement mixed with fear and anxiety. Not only worried about the detox but after will I be able to stay off this legal cheap high. I know that when I’m not taking it daily it will get me a nice buzz. I also know without a doubt that I am not the occasional user. It’s just gotta be all or nothing for me. Went through a drug program an internship and then a job as a Christian drug and alcohol counselor. Meet my wife (not an addict) got married, left the program that I had spent the last 3 years at and got high for a month. Maybe it was the fear of being married and not having any direction in my life, but whatever it was I hit the dope hard. Long story short I started kratom and it saved my life. Now it’s time to leave it all behind. A life without chemicals. Even pot I can’t occasionally use so we end up spending a lot of money on it. I just hope I can ducking do this.

4:06 pm August 23rd, 2014

Thank you Keith for sharing this with us. You can do it! Best of luck…

4:45 pm August 23rd, 2014

@help, you can do this bro! Reading your posts have given me hope. Today is the first day of my detox from kratom and its helpful to hear some about your journey. This isn’t my first time detoxing from opiates but it is from kratom. I’m hoping it’s going to be milder than the harder stuff, but no detox is easy. I just wanted to encourage you and to give you hope. After the physical part of getting off any physically addictive drug there is always going to be the much harder mental part. Overcoming the daily desire to use its a constant battle it seems. My hope is the hope that the daily desire to use something goes away after sometime. Like maybe after a few months or even a few years of complete sobriety that desire at least subsides to a manageable craving and it stops becoming a daily battle. I went through a very extensive program where it was a lot of digging into who I thought I was and why I think and act the way I do. It helped a little too know why I love getting high so much, but it didn’t solve the problem. Going to that program was the best thing I’d ever done with my life, but it didn’t win the war for me. The only thing that has helped me, after all these years of battling an addiction, has been my wife. And that is not to say that getting married is the key, but instead filling the hole that giving up drugs is going to leave behind. AA, NA, church, hobbies, friends, anything that you think you will love as much as getting high. And like I said it’s not a cure all, it’s simply a crutch to help you until you can find your feet again. All your doing is finding a new addiction and its not perfect it will come with its own set of problems, but I’d choose those problems over the ones that come with shooting dope any day. Take that advice for what it’s worth. I’m not a successfully recovered addict my any means yet, but I’m farther along than I’ve ever been and I’m finally seeing that a life without drugs is possible. I know that a few years ago I would never have been able to do maintenance with kratom, it was never enough of a high for me. I needed at least the little buzz methadone or subs would give me. But I was able to make it 5 months on just kratom. I’ll take any little bit of hope I can hold onto. This sounds depressing but hope is just about all I got left. You can do this brother and so can I. Aren’t you ready to see what else this life has to offer. I know I am.

6:24 pm August 23rd, 2014

It’s so encouraging to read the stories of those who have successfully stopped Kratom. Six months ago I was taking way more Kratom than I care to admit. After hitting rock bottom financially, I significantly cut my usage but I haven’t been able to let it go. I’ve tried several times but the pain in my legs becomes so unbearable. I have a fantastic job and a wonderful son that I need to be a good mother to. At first I didn’t think it was possible to cut my dosing. However I found that six size “00” caps of red vein Thai taken 3 times a day keeps me feeling normal and grounded. I miss the feeling that swallowing 10 grams would give but it was taking me to the poorhouse. I had to file bankruptcy back in February but it was a combination of over spending on Kratom and unnecessary items. What keeps me from using excessive amount now is that I must start saving money and also to provide little extras that my son deserves. My parents have given my son and I a place to live with rent I can afford. I originally found Kratom as a way to stop opiates. Well it worked and I just enjoyed it too damn much. I became a pro at toss and wash! I started filling my own caps to monitor my dosage. At my current dosing schedule I am no longer cleaning out my bank account. That in itself feels so good! To be completely honest, I’m scared to jump off. I have a great boss who loves me, a handsome son who loves me. They both count on me to be the strong hard worker that I am. Like I said, I still continue to read this blog and it makes me smile to read the stories, especially those from @Help.

6:06 am August 24th, 2014

@Keith. Thank you for the words. It now been a month since I’ve used kratom and in a few days it’ll be a month since I’ve used any substance for that matter. You’re right, 90% of the detox is mental. Getting through that takes a lot of soul searching. I’ve lived a drug free life and it is a good one. I only slipped up with kratom a few months back. I’ve had longer time sober then I have abused drugs. But that’s only because I hit it hard and fast. I was a low bottom drunk and drug addict by the time I was 20. It took less than two years after that before I realized it. I’m 28 now and couldn’t imagine the life I have today if I stayed on that path. Life is really good, but with the kratom I was starting a slippery slope that quickly reminded me of who/what I am. Keith, you seem like you have a true desire and I wish you the best of luck. I’d be lying if I said I don’t think about kratom after a month, but I don’t obsess over the thought of it. I don’t have the drive to want to use. I’ve also been to over 60 aa meetings in the past month. Which originally got me sober and kept me that way for 5 years. I just have to keep thinking positive and stay in the moment.

6:00 pm August 29th, 2014

I have just gotten off kratom. I know this is a post from 2012 but I just want to share my experience. I was up to 40 grams of plain leaf a day and would go into withdrawal 3 hours after I dosed. The anxiety was horrendous. 3 days of non stop anxiety I thought would never go away. I switched to stem and vein the past 3 days but it did almost nothing. Today is my first day without 3 grams of stem and vein* so I’m sure there are more withdrawals to come. I can’t say I’ll never touch this stuff again because I suffer from chronic pain syndrome but I can say that I will definitely be more careful from now of.

* stem and vein have a different chemical make up then plain leaf which essentially makes withdrawals a lot easier

11:49 pm August 29th, 2014

Hello everyone! I hope someone will be able to read this and assist me. I seem to have a unique case.
I tried Kratom for the first time the other day, and I only took a gram (.5 Bali and .5 Ma Daeng) I did the toss and wash method and had also smoked some pot and about 6 hours after had a crown and coke. I am now on day 4 and I still have an anxious feeling, no appetite (all 4 days) waking up nauseous every morning and feeling clammy/sweaty. I have been drinking water and forcing myself to eat chicken broth and chicken noodle soup. I guess im just worried and wondered if anyone had any advice or experienced the same symptoms? Any help appreciated, thank you.

5:48 pm August 30th, 2014

I believe if I were not here my child would attempt suicide from trying to go off kratom cold turkey this is the 4th day and the symptoms of insomnia, depression, horrid anxiety and the worst Restless leg syndrome only it is attacking her whole body with no let up what so ever.
Kratom is a terrible drug and should not be sold and should not be used for human consumption.

2:52 pm August 31st, 2014

This is about the best advice. I took Suboxone for 6 months, then slowly took myself off that by reducing dosage to virtually none. I then took Kratom, I thought since it is natural I was in the clear of withdrawing. Not true. It’s been over a month and I still don’t feel right. Slowly but surely I’ll be ok. I do believe that a benzoyl like Zanex or Valium would be very helpful. Sometimes the anxiety is pretty bad…

3:59 pm September 1st, 2014

Hello, an update, Day6 and the nausea/vomiting is gone but still have minor anxiety/nervousness. I have found drinking Chamomile tea and taking Ashwagandha root extract helps immensely.

8:50 am September 2nd, 2014

Thank you Michael for following up and providing an update. The worst part is over, it just keeps getting better after this point. Stay optimistic!

4:48 pm September 2nd, 2014

No Reve, it’s not a terrible drug at all. Addiction/habbit is the problem. Kratom has saved many lives and has an endless list of benefits. It is one of the best natural anti depressants in the world. Again, the list goes on. Don’t demonize kratom please. Give it the credit it deserves. If your kid has a problem with it, taper down with smaller doses each day, then the withdraw should be nullified while getting it out of your childs system. Also, by the way you make it sound, it’s possible there is something else your kid is taking which she’s not telling you about… It sounds pretty rough… Anyways, if you read many of the comments above, you will see that even those who got addicted, feel that kratom is a good thing which deserves a lot of credit. Please judge it fairly. (Also, it’s very safe and has never killed anyone FYI).

12:43 am September 3rd, 2014

Thank you Ivana! And Tyson, you mentioned its been a month and you still don’t feel right. Can you elaborate on what specific symptoms are still lingering? Hang in there buddy!

12:50 am September 3rd, 2014

Also how long has it been since you let off Suboxone? I have read that withdrawals from that alone can last up to 3 weeks. I do believe taking Kratom might of enhanced and prolonged the anxiety and why you still don’t feel right. But yes the best advice I can give to anyone looking at this thinking about taking Kratom is to avoid it at all costs. I still have anxiety and rapid heartbeat that sometimes wakes me up in the middle of the night, wishing this too would just go away and I could feel normal again.

kim J
9:50 am September 3rd, 2014 all have taken this herb to the extreme. This has saved my life and my relationships with my family. I am almost speechless at the amount of kratom you guys have been taken and then you all have the nerve to suggest big pharma for the withdraw. So contradicting. I take kratom for chronic pain and depression. I struggled for 27 years trying to find MY answer. I put myself in 8 rehabs were they tried to convince me I was nothing but a drug addict. I have had RLS since the age of 6. You all speak of RLS so you know what torture that can be , imagine a six year old having RLS, walking he floors floor hours looking at my mom for comfort and knowing that in an hour I had to get dressed for school. So with that being said I was limited as a child, I couldn’t play like the others, I couldnt learn, like the others and 40 years ago they had no idea why I had this disorder. I began opiate therapy at the age of 18 after a car accident…my RLS went away!!! BUT opiate therapy tolerance climbed and climbed util they no longer had anything that helped so there I was at the age of 37 RLS worse then ever. I struggled with depression because of this. Found kratom in 2010. I have no problem taking 3 grams a day to put my issues with RLS, sever arthritis in my upper body and fibro (due to all the big pharma I was givin over the years . So what do you suggest I do?? Stop kratom and die young?? No I will keep taking kratom bottom line. I have been using the same 3 grams for 4 years my life is evened out. You all abused this herb THAT is why you are here today. Good luck.

4:02 pm September 3rd, 2014

Michael, it honestly sounds like you have the flu or something similar. This is coincidental with the day after you took kratom but it may not actually be related at all.

Those who find that kratom is not for them, that’s fine… but you do not have the right to limit everyone else’s choices. Remember how “well” prohibition worked for alcohol, just because *some* people can’t handle it? It’s up to each person to exercise personal responsibility in choosing to take or not take any drug. I frankly loathe sanctimonious reactionaries who say “it didn’t work for me therefore YOU shouldn’t be able to use it either!” A little logic here please.

kim J
7:10 pm September 3rd, 2014

wow I just read that suicide attempt post , really there are way deeper issues that kratom. I suggest you take your “child” someplace for evaluation. There was just a mother in Florida that blamed her sons suicide on kratom but she never once mentioned the fact that he told he was gay and she shunned him, nor did she mention the heron abuse he relapsed on, or the fact that his boy friend just broke up with him. If it were my child I would surely have him committed for a further evaluation.

12:19 am September 4th, 2014

I am sorry Gothchiq but the flu doesn’t cause fluttering heartbeat that wakes you up in the middle of the night every night for the past 9 days…

kim J
1:07 am September 4th, 2014

what do you suggest for someone that is chronic pain?? I have been on every pharmacutical there is and conditions only became worse. Tolerance went through the roof and no place left to go. But I use the same amount of kratom three times a day for four years and my pain issues are gone.. I am not looking to get “high” I just want to live the rest of my life in peace. It is half way through for me the first half was a nightmare. I have had RLS since the age of 6. I have not had RLS in for years that is huge to me. I will take my chances on kratom. But I certainly don’t abuse it ..these posts sound like abuse to me.

don't matter
3:55 pm September 7th, 2014

So I have a question. Long story short Bali, twenty to thirty five grams a day for ten months, then quit. I’m on day sixteen without any. All symptoms are gone. Getting through the first six days is all there is to that. Only thing is it left me with HORRIBLE anxiety depression high blood pressure. I’ve never heard anyone get to into detail on this. Fuck xanax, valume, all that other shit. That’s all addic logic. I went to see a doctor and told her I don’t want any of that shit. She did a small research on the drug and gave me non habit forming calodadine. It’s to lower blood pressure. Now that helps with the anxiety depression, only thing is I can’t work on the medication, and I can’t work off of it. I have no one to fall back on to pay my bills and live with my girl. This creates more anxiety to where I feel I’m going to have a heart attack. I just need to know if someone out there has been on the drug, roughly same length and amount taken per day, has got off, and I mean off off. None of that yeah I’m clean bullshit, only take it here and there, or yeah I’m clean I’m on day four and am experiencing mild affects, blah blah blah. They haven’t even made it to the panic attack state of the drug that I NEVER got from roxys and herion. I see blogs saying kratom addiction is not so bad, bullshit. I mean it’s good to stay positive but lying to your self leads to relapse. It sucks jus do what you gotta do. I’m going to lose everything if my heart doesn’t stop feeling like it’s going to rip out of my chest. My blood pressure at its callmest was one sixty. It was in the two hundreds when I had my panic attack. More then one I might add. My question is if I’m sixteen days out, all symptoms gone except severely high anxiety blood pressure, when will that shit stop??? Anyone who has been where I been and made it out please let me know if this ever goes away. If I’ve done permanent damage to myself id rather get on Suboxane for the rest of my life then this blood pressure medicine. Atleast I can make a living that way. Thanks for any responses

12:55 pm September 9th, 2014

I started taking Kratom at the back end of 2013 as an alternative to prescription medication for anxiety and depression, with taking Kratom I was able to stop taking the prescribed meds.
The way kratom made me feel was more confident and happier within myself, when I first stated I was taking about 5 to 6 grams every 2 days, this worked for around 2 months but then I was convincing myself that it is a natural herb and taking it everyday should and will not be a problem my reasoning was that its making me feel better.
The problem then started that my intake was having to rise to get the same benefit, then I would start to wake up early with Restless legs so I decided to take it once in the morning then once at night to combat this.
The situation then escalated to heaped teaspoons which I later measured as a one off thinking it was around 8g when infact it was nearer to 14g.
This Is when I started to realise that I had become addicted and decided Monday 1st September 2014 to taper my dosage down to stop for a while.
The week since for me has been a total nightmare, The RLS immediately kicked in when I started tapering and I have been unable to sleep for more than 3 hrs getting up at 3am thinking about taking more kratom to stop the shitty feeling and stop the RLS.
I am now on day 8 of the tapering down taking around 2g in the morning and the same at night, things at the moment are not getting easier and today I have had to got to the doctors (reluctantly) and tell her the situation, she has given me 7 days of sleeping tablets which she said she really didn’t want to give me and wanted me to make an appointment with drug specialist.
So here we are to date I feel like Sh@t my depression and mood swings are crazy I cannot sleep and have the occasional suicide thought. Im just hoping that If I can stop taking tonight and take a sleeping tablet things may get better.
Having said all of the above I still stand by Kratom as I believe it is beneficial for so many people but moderation an control is the key, unfortunately I do not possess any moderation and control factors and must have an addictive personality.
Its good to be able to talk and read other peoples views on here as nobody who I know or even the doctor have ever heard of Kratom before.

4:54 pm September 9th, 2014

First let me say @kim j, I agree with many of the things you spoke of. I don’t believe that the criticism is necessary. People come here to find knowledge and support. Kratom saved me from a terrible addiction to pain pills. Yes I did take much more than I needed & more often than I needed. I have successfully lowered my dosage to about 5 grams 2-3 times a day. I have awful RD and using/stopping the pain pills only made it worse, practically unbearable. Kratom provides a general sense of well being & prevents the RLS. Like I said, I admit to abusing kratom and I knew it would take its toll on me, emotionally and financially. More often than not, the majority of medications have the potential for abuse. I can say confidently that my life is a hell of a lot better now than when I was on the pills. If someone is talking about suicide then there is much more going on than just kratom. It is my opinion that alcohol is much more dangerous than kratom. I sincerely hope that the people who read this blog find some comfort in knowing that they are not alone and there are so many of us who have been down the same road.

12:33 am September 10th, 2014

People that say kratom is not addictive don’t know what there talking about. I took a product called viva zen its a kratom extract shot. Anyway I took one shot some times two a day for six months and let me tell you that after six months I began to have panic attacks from it then decided to quit and then the roller coaster ride came. Anxiety, RLS, chest pain, back pain cold sweats insomnia its crazy I googled a lot of it and for me kratom has the same withdrawal s as opiates. I have been off kratom for 32 days and still have anxiety that comes and goes I’m still not feeling normal and the depression sucks. So stay away from kratom and if you are going through withdrawl s one thing to look into is they sell natural pills made from herbs that help with the W/D…. Thanks and good luck

Herbert G
1:16 pm September 10th, 2014

Kim J is right , people on this thread have gone beyond Kratom abuse. I also don’t trust the agenda of this site. However, I can appreciate honest discussion about Kratom though. I will concede that it is slightly addictive. I’ll also stay that this plant is essential to many people as a totally safe medication that allows them to function normally. I’m tapering off of it now. Been using it for over one year. I dosed two to three grams before work daily another two or three every four hours. Have noticed an increase lately so I’m going from a max dose of fourteen gm a day to a minumum dose overnight. Sixteen hrs. After last dose I’m just tired and I should be because of strenuous job. That’s why I love Kratom, it makes hard work a blast. I also have arthritis in back and a lot of hardware in my leg which I am currently in pain from. Craving krtm moderately so I will take only one gram. As needed for a few days to lower tolerance. I can deal with the pain for a while and I need to lay around and rest anyway. I don’t plan on totall abstinence from Kratom because it is hands down the only safe alternative for pain, and probably depression too. I’m not downplaying some of the bad wds. Stories here but c’mon, y’all were taking how much?! How many times a day? It does have potential to be severely abused but if it is made a scheduled substance it will be an even sadder day in America. Please if you are trying to totally stop DO NOT take benzos!!!. Think you have problems now omg.

5:10 pm September 10th, 2014

@don’t matter I myself have been clean off of kratom since spring break week and have debated because of my lack of energy and depression issues if id be better off just doing as little as possible but haven’t used any since 4-9-2014 and I felt real bad the first 6 days days 6- about 12 things got a little better it took about 25 days before I slept better and noticed no more withdrawal symptoms I had small panic attacks at first but they did go away id say around day 25 or 30 and I also did 20 to 25 grams a day and was on it 2 years and had used it to kick a 4 or 5 year hydro habit so altogether I had a 7 year run and I still to this day have low energy and loss of interest and minor depression some days but some days are good and im hoping to keep on keeping on but to be honest I have thought about using it just way less and only as needed for depression but I would really have to feel confidant I could regulate before doing it because I don’t want to put myself through another withdraw but I do feel it would be better than my family dr. putting me on Prozac or Zoloft for my depression issues . I have 5 months clean right now…hope this post can help someone…

5:27 am September 14th, 2014

My son had to come home from college at a major university just 2 days into his third semester bc he began “kicking” this drug. He had been hitting the kava bar, locally the whole time he was on Christmas break, just prior to returning to college. He had lost weight and became pale and guant. He had mood swings and angry outbursts at times. He was also sleeping a lot, lethargic, having vivid dreams when he was sleeping. He was also having “out of body” experiences he would tell me when he did this drug. This was in Jan. of 2013. After returning, I took him to Hanley to try to see if he would get help but he refused. I had to ask him to leave my home bc I had begun to seek help through and addiction therapist and I was attending Alanon. I was crying when I had met with my therapist the first time and I asked him, “how can I save my only sons life”? He told me that the only way, if it was a possibility, was to try through “tough-love” and setting boundaries and rules. My therapist supported my decision to have him leave my home. We were trying to persuade him to get help for his addiction. 9 mos later, he had been living with his dad most of the time and he had begun to rip him off, stealing checks and other items. There were no opiates involved here and he had never, ever done heroin, just Kratom, and we have the bank records to prove that all of his money from his debit card was going to this kava bar, locally. He had come out that he was gay in December of 2013. It was in therapy and he was, at the time, supposedly clean for 90 plus days. I had pretty much guessed he was gay for awhile bc he had very few, if any girlfriends in HS. He came out officially to me during a therapy session and once he told me and saw I wasn’t shocked, he asked, “well, how do you feel about this”? I told him, “relieved”. I said, “the biggest shock for me over this past two years was to find out you were addicted to Kratom”. I said, I love you with all of my heart and soul and I want you to live, son, so now that you’ve told me this, can you move forward and live to enjoy your life”? Just a few weeks after the session, he tested positive in his sober living, for Kratom. He told me he had relapsed before the session because he was afraid to tell me but once he realized that I loved him no matter what his sexual preferences were, it was too late. He’d already “picked up”. Three weeks later, we had an intervention for him and he denied the Kratom use once again until I had found 2 empty packets in his car of k-pow. He finally came clean and he got back into treatment for 60 days. He became addicted to Kratom by visiting a local kava bar that was “hip” and intriguing to him at the end of his junior year of highschool. Any age kid could go there and he was young and naive. He even asked me to go and other family members. I was concerned at the time and I did go down there to check out this scene. I didn’t like the scene. I felt something wasn’t right about it. He bought me a drink and it tasted horrible. He finished it for me. I got home and felt like I had had 2 Valiums, even though I didn’t finish the drink. My husband also went down with me and he had done drugs in his past and he knew immediately, this was not cool, for someone in recovery, as both of us are. We both never returned. My son was one special young man and he took his own life bc of this legal, designer herbal drug. Our family loved him, everyone in our family and he loved his family. He was a 4th generation native to our town and he was loved and respected by so many in our community. Over 500 attended his memorial services. His friends had a surf paddle out memorial and over 100 attended this. A yoga class memorial that over 70 attended at his high school. The funeral service was “a packed house” and people had to line up against the walls of the church. He was such a sweet and beautiful guy, very sensitive and loving. He was popular in high school and voted “most beautiful eyes”. His spirit gleaned “light and love”. In early June, my son, relapsed again on the Kratom and he became so sick all over again. He was given the option to return to rehab but he refused. He wasn’t allowed to come home to live unless he was clean for one year. This drug, effected his whole being. He had lost everything from the drug and he knew it. I saved every text message from him from way back when he first became addicted and he had so many regrets about it. In one message he said, “do you think I like being treated like a piece of dog-sh*t who just woke up one morning and said, hey, I think I’m gonna get f’d up one morning and get addicted to kratom so I can make my parents hate me and so I can just “f”them over”? In my son’s case, he suffered terribly from his addiction and had a great deal of guilt and remorse for stealing thousands of dollars from his family, who loved him dearly and he knew this. He was once a person of high morals and came from a solid “Christian” upbringing. There are a few “dealers in suits” out here and on this blog, monitoring this site to make sure that they are going to wake up with money still in their bank accounts. The truth is, they don’t care about anyone on here who is truly suffering from addiction. Their only concern is their own greed. The fact that this once “promising” young man has lost his life over his addiction to a product they are “marketing”, means nothing to them. If this isn’t a form of “terrorism” on our countries infrastructure, our younger generation, I don’t know what is? I’m just a mother who is now childless and I’ve lost my most precious and beloved son. Let’s try to not divert this into something less than what it really is here @kim j who I know who you’re affiliated with. We are talking about substance abuse here not sexual identity issues. In today’s modern world, someone’s sexual preferences are totally accepted by most of our society, as a whole. On July 16th, 2014, my son had just had a confrontation regarding some stolen checks with a family member. He quickly left and said, “I can’t live like this anymore”. Within minutes, he drove to the overpass of a nearby interstate, removed his sandals and proceeded to dive off the overpass. In his car, at the scene, 6 empty packets of Kratom were found and 2 full packets. He suffers no more from his addiction to Kratom. We, his family, will suffer the loss of this precious Iife, for the rest of our lives.

5:27 pm September 14th, 2014
I’m having to spend my birthday today without my son in my life. He was my only child. You all tell me if this video shows me to be an “evil person” who would shun my only child. I always told my son, “I love you more than life itself”!! He was born with all kinds of medical issues and had to have a craniectomy at 8weeks old. He was so special to our whole family. This drug may have stolen him from me but one day…I will go with him to be with our Lord and Savior! I know where he is and he lives! He suffers no more! Be objective, be optimistic! This addiction thing can be beat and for me, a recovering alcoholic of 20 years…suffering through this worst event that could have ever happened to a recovering person, I haven’t had to pick up over this! My strength comes from a solid foundation in that third step of AA. There truly is no other way than through the doors of AA. It saved my life…I got sober 20 years ago when my son was just 7mos. old. I did it for him…now it’s just up to me!! I can do this and I will! “Anonymous no more”! I don’t have anything to hide or run away from. Just being honest and caring for all of you who are atruggling on here! You are all in my prayers! Praying for those of you who hate me bc I speak truth! Praying you will turn away from destroying young lives for your own personal greed! I forgive you and I love you!

12:02 pm September 15th, 2014

Ana, this is one touching story! I’m very sorry for your loss…

4:14 pm September 15th, 2014

Sorry Ana. Kratom didn’t kill your son. Your son had other problems. Don’t blame kratom. There are countless people who use kratom (such as me regularly) and they are happy and social people. There could be many many reasons your son died. Kratom played a small role if any. Sorry about your son, but there are a number of comments above which show that no one shares your extreme views on kratom (especially when you called it a designer drug etc). You need to look elsewhere for the root cause of why your son died. It wasn’t kratom. Please accept that.

6:13 pm September 15th, 2014

@Dont Matter – “Only thing is it left me with HORRIBLE anxiety depression high blood pressure. I’ve never heard anyone get to into detail on this. ”

I can’t go into detail but, YES, I’ve got the same lingering symptoms. I quit all Kratom 3 months ago and have not taken a speck since. I didn’t think it could be lingering WD from Kratom (it’s been a good 90 days now) until I read your post. Now things make sense and the panic attack I felt coming on has subsided! I suspect the remarkable human body will repair over time. It make take a very long time but what other options are there?

1:47 am September 16th, 2014

@Don’t matter,
Its been about 20-21 days since I last took Kratom and I will tell you that my anxiety and depression is gone, the only thing that still sometimes bothers me is fluttering heartbeat which even that has gotten more mild and doesn’t wake me up in the middle of the night nearly as much as it used to. The one thing that really seems to help is Aswagandha Root extract, really helps with the anxiety/nervousness and lowers blood pressure. I highly recommend you go to your nearest GNC or vitamin shop and pick some up its only about 15$ for a bottle of 100 capsules.

8:18 pm September 16th, 2014

You guys REALLY need to start tapering. All these lingering issues that go on and on after the initial week or two…Thats PAWS (Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome). PAWS is caused by getting off far too fast for your body to get back to working as it should. Kratom affects more than just opiate receptors, so you’re gonna have symptoms that are different than regular opiate withdrawals as well. PAWS last for months generally. I spent a lot of time (months) tapering off and only felt it only so slightly at the very end when I stopped (at a ridiculously small amount). I understand the statement from some of you that if you take it you’ll keep taking it to get high. I was at the point where it did nothing for me though (besides delay withdrawals) and was hitting my wallet big time. So I basically just didn’t see the point anymore. In the initial stages when I really felt a mood lift and my body hurt less ( I have fibromyalgia and failed back syndrome [failed back surgeries] I wouldn’t have been able to taper.

Ana, I’m truly sorry for your loss, but kratom is not a designer drug (designer, meaning designed in a lab) nor has anyone ever died from it. He very well may have had some underlying conditions that he used kratom and kava to self medicate with. Those in the gay community often turn to substances to cope with it (not trying to stereotype or insult, it’s true though) and depression and countless other things might have also been a reason. When addicts are put on notice and forced to quit before they’re ready to quit, it’s just not gonna work. Not for long at least. It took me 6 or 7 years to finally get off methadone, heroin, oxy, dilaudid, etc (not all at the same time, doctors changed them sometimes)… Partly because I had further surgeries, but also bc I just wasn’t ready. There’s also the possibility that the kratom the kava bar used was bought from a place that spiked it with desmethyltramadol, the active metabolite in Tramadol. Blaming kava and kratom for his death is stretching it though. Addiction, stress, and emotions killed your son and the therapist was wrong quite frankly in his saying to use tough love. Nobody quits for anyone else, no matter how much they care for them, no matter what choices they’re forced to make, until they’re themselves ready. You can’t will anyone to quit or force. Unless the substance is literally killing that person (alcohol [legal still btw despite thousands upon thousands of deaths. If it just came out today, it’d be illegal within a year] meth, heroin. etc…), interventions and forced rehabs are not going to work out well. Again though, I truly am sorry for your loss and can feel the pain in just reading your words.

8:41 pm September 17th, 2014

@Dustin – I believe you are absolutely correct with regards to a long slow taper. If I had to do it over again (I truly hope I don’t but you know what I mean) I would go about it in the way you have outlined in your many informative posts. Just wanting to find the instant cure I think I jumped the shark by going cold turkey.

12:12 pm September 19th, 2014

Ya, I hear ya. I’ve gone cold turkey from hydrocodone, oxycodone, methadone (the worst), hydromorphine, and morphine. These were all prescribed, and being an addict I would take too much and run out early. I found early on that if I went back to the doctor and told him it wasn’t working too well that he’d prescribe a different painkiller and the pharmacy and insurance would fill it. Of course, you can only do this so many times before the doctor starts to wonder and you run out of things to switch to, So I had probably 20 or so cold turkeys over the years. I also have chronic pain, which makes the withdrawals ridiculously excruciating. The 3-7 day breaks DID make it less intense though than it would be the next time. With methadone though I was on it like a year without a break and methadone is known as being among the worst to get off of (body aches like crazy…makes your bones themselves hurt which on top of a bad back and fibromyalgia is enough to make you wanna cry like a baby…). Anyways, I finally learned my lesson until I made the genius decided to try kratom. The addiction wan;t nearly as bad though and I quit at not much more than I started at. Once I realized I was getting a tolerance and taking it daily and needed it, I decided that was enough, Overall I took it about a year (part enriched [double enhanced] and part plain leaf). I tapered over MONTHS and was functionable the whole time. You have to go slower at the end though as far as reduction goes. 10 grams to nine is no big deal, but 2 to 1 and then nothing is much worse. So I’d do half grams after a certain point and then quarter grams. If I was still getting the effects I got when I started, it would have been harder mentally. I’d choose ordering from a place in Indonesia, if you live in the eastern U.S., they don’t ship to the west because customs is a pain in the ass (not gonna say the name, not sure if that’s allowed) and pay a quarter or third of what you pay hear or 1/5 or so of what the head shops charge (absolute rip-off) and wait until it does nothing for me anymore (which makes it MUCH easier to do a disciplined taper) than go cold turkey. You’re messing with serotonin, endorphins, and norepinephrine, three neurotransmitters involved in a lot of mental and physical processes. It takes time for these things to get back to normal and working again (they quit producing bc with the added amounts from the kratom they say, “oh, we don;t need to do our thing anymore because there’s this outside excess coming in”. This is why you get tolerance and withdrawals. They don’t get back to normal over seven days and in fact quitting all at once makes it take longer for them to come back to normal IMO. People who quit benzo’s too quick get PAWS (post acute withdrawal syndrom), which lasts for months. People who taper slowly at a manageable rate generally don’t get PAWS. Either way it’s gonna take roughly the same amount of time whether you taper or cold turkey. Cold turkey you have a week of hell and then months of lesser symptoms. OR you can taper over those months and not have too much trouble at all. That’s why I try to keep driving home the point of tapering (IF you can).

12:20 pm September 19th, 2014

Here, not hear…too early in the morning…

12:31 am September 22nd, 2014

What natural supplements would be appropriate for Kratom withdrawal?

6:47 am September 27th, 2014

Ashwagandha Root helps, take 1 about an hour before bed and it helps you sleep and reduces stress/anxiety

don't matter
1:47 pm October 12th, 2014

@ dynodave.
Thanks man, it has been a long time sense I hopped back in Here sense I wrote that thread, I decided all why not. Your the only one who took the time to answer my question, and I thank you. Yes the anxiety shit go’s away once in for all. The first ten days is all physical, the next fifteen is all chronic anxiety depression. I only attempted to quit twice, second time I made it out. People on here lose track of what’s important, start arguing with each other and all kinds of bullshit. I heard one girl bragging on how kratom saved her life. Good luck to you girl you have alooong way to go. Listen, to EVERYONE on here. We fucked up. That’s all there is to it. Only way to get clean is to just do what me and dyno did and just FUCKING STOP! It’s hard I know. Only reason I got clean on the streets is through Christ. He lent me his strength. Sadly if you are a non believer the only way you’ll get clean is by being incarcerated or a casket. I’m clean for months now and have lots of money saved up that normally would of went to kratom. That shit does more then y’all think, IT FRIES YOUR FUCKING BRAIN! Find a plan that works for y’all and GET THE FUCK OFF THAT SHIT, THE SOONER THE BETTER! I wish y’all the best of luck and will say a prayer for y’all…

1:42 am October 18th, 2014

Kratom has helped me stop drinking. I never thought I could ever quit but when I found out about Kratom I started taking it and my want for alcohol went out the door. Guess what, no more problems that alcohol caused in my life which was a lot. Now I’ve been taking kratom for a little over 2 years and I’m going to stop. I’ve been tapering down slowly and just saw Justin’s taper advice. I’m actually on 4 caps – 5 times a day – spread out. I was over doing it – it was my fault but then I realized that I needed to get a grip and move on. It can catch up to you if you use a heavy amount so just remember that you are in control and you dictate your life. I have some discomfort such as achy muscles, headache, fatigue I’m taking magnesium, ashwanghda and benedryl which helps a lot.

2:48 pm October 19th, 2014

ok folks, thought id share.i don’t know why but after about 5 months and 2 weeks clean I used some kratom again I used it once and waited and felt know withdraw so of course my dumbass kept pushing the envelope anyways after about two weeks or so of sporadic use it finally dawned on me of just spring break week of this year all I had went through to kick this shit so I quit it again and wasn’t feeling any withdraw then when I woke up on day 3 I realized I was in withdraw all the symptoms were there just not as strong but there they were, I kind of just went back to my withdraw game plan vitamins exercise and keeping my mind busy and chating with a friend that helped last time who has also been there but still clean, and luckily everything was over after about 2 or 3 days and it wasn’t as strong or as long and not really feeling paws after 8 days under my belt this time.i guess they went by faster and easier this time because 1.i knew what to expect was only a short slip up and the kratom was not as deeply embedded in my being as my 2 year run last time.i don’t know why i It used again because ive done some soul searching and I have no bad childhood or deep dark secrets that im hiding from, I think I just enjoyed the energy and attitude boost it gives me and at age 50, but after a few days I also noticed my detachment from family and friends and loss of intrest in my hobbies again plus I hate the stigma of being addicted to anything and me not being in control and luckily I saw things coming so I was by the grace of god and myself able to go on and set it back down again.I don’t know if ill ever use it again, I hope not !,just keeping it real with ya’ll and letting the group here know where I am at….until next time I remain…….

2:36 am October 29th, 2014

some of these comments are ridiculous to me. if you think kratom is soooo bad and soooo addictive then don’t ever try methadone, suboxone, or heroin, or any other true opiate. people are saying “i used kratom multiple takes a day for years and now i have withdrawals for 4, 6, 7 days” that’s a joke. methadone withdrawals are a million times worse (so are suboxone and heroin withdrawals) and for methadone i had to taper for months and months (withdrawing the entire time i was tapering) and then after getting down enough i quit totally and not only did i have intense physical and mental withdrawals for 20+ days (& the first 7 days i could not sit up, could not move from the bed, etc.) but the depression, anxiety, and no energy lasted for months, if not over a year to two years. so for all you thinking kratom withdrawals are so bad you better not ever try any REAL drugs ’cause you’ll prolly die the way you are acting. and btw, if you want to get off kratom, TAPER for as long as you need to, and then when you have tapered down low enough, get off kratom completely. i doubt you will have much withdrawals by doing it that way. whenever you decide to go cold turkey off something you have used for years, you should expect to feel some pain, but trust me on this, kratom withdrawals cold turkey are nothing compared to heroin or methadone.

2:42 pm October 29th, 2014

@ rachel ,Thanks for all your careing help and support with all of our wimpy kratom withdrawals…

12:01 am October 30th, 2014

Rachel you do realize that this is a support blog for users of Kratom. I have no doubt that heroin withdrawal is miserable so I never intend to find out. Your comments would be best suited to heroin blog. What I think most people don’t realize is how kratom will change their life, and not always in a positive way. As of Friday this week I have chosen to seek help to break free of kratom. After using for nearly three years I know that I will not be able to do it alone. Perhaps if I could take a few weeks off from work and motherhood then I could certainly detox with a supportive friend or family member there to comfort me. I don’t have that option.

I have no idea what type of plan the doctor has come up for me though I know it is not methadone or suboxone. In fact after speaking with the nurse several times this week, she informed me that he was not familiar with kratom but was doing extensive research. He is a respected doctor in the community with an established practice. Only recently did he branch out in his own addiction Recovery practice but he is knowledgeable and very experienced from treating within his internal medicine practice. I will update here on my journey if anyone would care to read about it. If not, that’s fine too.

11:04 pm November 1st, 2014

@ gina ill be following to see how it goes for you…you can do this im living proof..

11:55 pm November 1st, 2014

Gina, I hate to tell you, but you’re gonna have a hard with the doctor because there’s no conversion ratio or charts for kratom since the strength of kratom can fluctuate wildy depending on many things. Doctors tend to underrate anything they don’t know about. He might give you some valium for a short while, but I don’t know what really he can do to help with the symptoms. Probably say take some OTC pain meds for aches (taking a hot bath is more helpful), give you something to relax and sleep and that’s about it. Methadone and suboxone are the only things doctors can legally give to patients (who weren’t taking prescription opioid/opiate drugs for a legitimate condition) to help with withdrawals. So if it’s not those, then its not gonna be anything helpful. Not to mention taking methadone or suboxone to get off kratom is completely the wrong way around. Backwards. Plus, kratom affects serotonin and norepinephrine as well, so even if something was given for the opiate aspect, you would still have depression and generally not care or feel happy about anything. It’s just uncharted waters for a doctor to deal with and they tend to always underrate these things bc they have no experience with it (and err on the side of caution when it comes to covering their a$$).As long as you’re not gonna die or be permanently injured, Dr’s really have no problem with a patient being in discomfort if the discomfort is necessary to fix the problem. Honestly, you can either slowly taper (how anyone wouldn’t just do that blows my mind) or go to a rehab if you can’t bring yourself to taper. The rehab will get you off over a week (actually you’ll have to cold turkey, they’re not gonna take your kratom and give you smaller and smaller amounts of it and control it for you). Anything not a prescription CANNOT be taken into a detox/rehab and they do search you and your things when entering. The also would very most likely not give you suboxone since, like the Dr.’s, they don’t know anything about it. The only thing they’ll really offer you is a locked room and no escape. Or you can take some vacation time and cold turkey. Sucks, I know, but thats it. And although she didn’t really say it in the best way she could, there’s truth to was Rachel said. Methadone is pure hell to get off of. I was at 120 mg and went to detox and was supposed to be down to 30 when I started there. So I essentially went from 120 to 20 overnight and went down 5 more everyday. I got post acute withdrawal syndrome and was screwed up a LONG time. Felt like I had a tight chest and couldn’t breath for months, couldn’t sit still, couldn’t sleep, and had considerably worse back pain. It took a year to feel fully over it. This is why I try to drive home the point to TAPER for the love of God. Cold turkey just makes the overall recovery time after the last time taken MUCH longer. You’re not getting out without discomfort no matter what. It can be cold turkey discomfort or mental discomfort bc you took some and want to take more. That’s really the options. Sorry to be so blunt and I hope things work out, but basically there’s no magic pill or magic wand that the doctor can wave and fix things. If you need the Dr. for support and to keep tabs on you and your progress then fine, but that’s really the best you’ll get. TAPER. The only way out is through (discomfort). Have any questions on tapering then feel free to ask, I’ve done it so many times I could teach Dr.’s about it (bc honestly they have no idea unless they’ve done it themselves).

12:19 am November 2nd, 2014

That’s weird Rachel , I had the same thing (post acute withdrawal) except I was so restless I felt like I was on speed (unhappy speed). From the moment I woke up from my crappy sleep I was never sitting still. Pacing, going driving (to nowehere in particular), going to narcotics anonymous meetings (family made me) which I could barely sit through (some thought I was on coke or speed). Eventually a doctor had mercy and put me on klonopin. 3 years later I get a herniated disc and have a spinal fusion and took prescribed methadone for a couple years during that bc it’s cheaper than oxycontin. Back to the beginning again. This time I tapered over a year and it was much easier for me. TAPER SLOW people and you’ll barely have an issue. I can’t say that enough times. I realize some of you, if you take any, have to take a lot and can’t taper. Can’t really help you there, either have some self control and taper (the same self control you need to stop cold friggin turkey) or go cold turkey. Also, remember the more cold turkeys you go through the harder it gets each time (kindling syndrome), so when you get off STAY AWAY. If you must, find something that doesn’t come along with a withdrawal syndrome and tolerance. I for one recommend kava kava (not the b.s. extract pills in the health store). That’s the only legal thing I can recommend.

1:49 am November 6th, 2014

@Dustin thank you for responding! I’m not afraid to admit when I’m wrong nor am I afraid to concede when someone is right. In this case you are right. The MD I went to see ending up not charging me for the visit as a professional courtesy being that I work for one of his colleagues. I was giving a half dozen medications at the end of my visit. He did offer a short term detox with suboxone and then subsequent Vivitrol injections. I was giving Motrin 800mg, Librium, immodium, Bentyl & Ambien. The Librium actually had me nodding at work to the point that my writing was trailing off the page! Not to mention that the leg pain was only slightly less than if I was taking nothing. Now I do have a prescription for Ultram that I take for RLS only as needed, and I’m being honest there. I know that Ultram can cause dependency as well and I don’t need a second substance. The problem is that I cannot miss work, I have a son to care for and I provide for his insurance. You’re right that tapering is the most effective way but I’m lacking the discipline to do so. It would be great if you could come stay in Pittsburgh with me to dispense it for me! All kidding aside, I really appreciate you taking the time to respond. I had my hopes high when I went to the appointment but I left in tears. This doctor cannot prescribe suboxone in an outpatient setting. So I’m struggling with the question “do I go on the suboxone website and try to find a doctor?” “Can I find the strength and determination to taper?” Oh and another thing, the doctor was absolutely not familiar with kratom. He did his research prior to me coming in but they cannot relate to what we deal with. I’ve been using it for 3 years. It’s not just about stopping, it’s a lifestyle change. But I have no one I can talk to about it. I don’t know if they allow people to post their email but I would love to hear your thoughts in a less public forum. I’m not looking for a hook up, just to hear from someone like yourself who has been down that road. Sorry for rambling on but you made my day by taking the time to respond, thank you Dustin!

1:54 am November 6th, 2014

@Dustin…as difficult as it was to read what you had to say, I appreciate your honesty.

3:02 pm November 6th, 2014

The other med I forgot to mention was Clonodine. I just ordered another 200 grams of kratom which will be here tomorrow. I don’t know how or even if I can do this but it’s getting to the point where it has to end. I could save all those meds for when I’m towards the end of a taper. That would obviously be the wise thing to do.

5:01 pm November 6th, 2014

Ya, you got it exactly right in the last post. I can tell you right now though that ultram is almost exactly the same as kratom. Well it’s not natural, but it affects all the same exact places as kratom. My thoughts when I first took kratom were this feels more like tramadol than any other painkiller. Less energy though I guess. Taking that will screw up your taper. Everything else it good though. I wouldn’t take any tramadol for a week after you completely stop and none during your taper unless you’re taking a pause in it and only take it like 1 day. Everything else is good, don’t take librium and ambien at the same time, they’re pretty similar. Well, I can look into the e-mail thing (about posting) or I can just look you up on FB or vice versa and then give you my e-mail there.

3:54 am November 9th, 2014

Hi everyone,
I see a lot of us have similar problems w/ Kratom. I have been addicted to vicodin, percocet, & oxys for several years before I found Kratom. Jeeze I sure don’t miss the emergency appointments (false complaints) w my dentist, so much time ,$$ & energy spent just to get 20 pills of percocet to last me a few days. I also lost my business due to my drug influence, plus spending ~ $1000/week to support oxy/roxy habit. I finally got the courage to get help from a doctor. He prescribed suboxone which i was on for a while. This doc was very strict about his appts and after missing the 1st apt, he warned me the 2nd time would be a dismissal. Unfortunately that day came when I missed another apt. Prior to this incident, I was on vacation in the Bahamas having a great time w/ friends. (Most didn’t know about my drug problem. While having breakfast, I felt so ill without any apparent reason. Suddenly it dawned on me I forgot to take suboxone that morning. As I rushed back to my hotel, I place suboxone on my tongue as while it dissolved, I felt a sense of relief almost instantly. That felt like hell (so were other times) while it lasted so after my dismissal, I had to come up w a plan.. I couldn’t find a doc so I turned to online forum for my answer. Someone suggested Kratom so I gave it a try. Didn’t like it right away but came to appreciated after a month. That was a year and a half ago before I knew I was hooked. I would take up to 0.5 oz/day being very thin w less than 100 lbs that was quite sufficient. Long story short, after losing my biz & close friends, moved to another state. I also got health ins and had a blood test done. Somehow I knew all along Kratom was too good to be true (it’s just an herb, legal, & cheap). MY BLOOD TEST REVEALED AN ELEVATED LIVER ENZYME WHICH IS VERY FRIGHTENING. (Oh did i mention 3 of my uncles died fr liver disease). I had to quit kratom for my own sake. It’s been very hard for me but I choose life over this drug. I’m a 35 yrs old gal who once had it all…was a successful biz owner, graduated at the top of my class, bachelor degree in biz, w/ lots of respect fr my peers, and many people think I’m attractive. I suffered depression so bad that I could care less at the time. It’s been less than a week since I’ve had a full dose of Kratom. I’ve diluted 1 tp w a bottled water and when withdrawal kicks in I would allow myself a sip. I guess what helped was me being sick to my stomach when I think of drug addiction. WHY DID I ALLOW MYSELF TO SUFFER FOR SO LONG? My health could have been resulted fr combination of all the drugs but Kratom was not far off from the rest. Right now, I am still waiting to get other tests done. Though it’s extremely nerve recking. I URGE ALL OF YOU TO BE STRONG AND PUT YOURSELF IN MY SITUATION AND STAY AWAY FROM DRUGS. If you feel depress, talk to someone. I was too stubborn to seek help, instead turned to drugs. Just remember, your mind is connected to your body so if your mind wants to quit, your body has to pick up the slacks…get up and excercise, meditate, walking, etc. (If you think of it, ever get nervous and get butterflies/knots in your stomach? Your mind releases neuron receptors to your body so how about trying to reverse it? If you can’t control the mind, at least make your body do the work and maybe you can feel better? Anyway, I am glad to let this off my chest. I would really appreciate if anyone has developed health problems pertaining the liver, hopefully to give me some comfort or support? I have not felt this strong in years and I can’t wait to have myself back again.

8:41 am November 10th, 2014

I have gone through withdrawl of a 5 year addiction to Methadone and other opiates. It was very difficult but I did it and ended up feeling great and felt like I had gotten my lifeback. I had a slip up and ended up taking vicodin again for a few months. Then i discovered Kraytom. I have been on it for a year and am ready again to (hopefully for good) kick the pill popping game. Compared to the Methadone withdrawl which was a 13 on a 1-10 scale. ……what can I expect compared to that?

7:46 pm November 12th, 2014

@Ana– This is the second time I tried to write this (accidentally hit send before I finished last time). So, these are the MANY issues I have with all of the comments you have submitted. First, you made mention of the fact that your son was spending $30-60 a day on kratom/kava/whatever (your description of what happened changes per comment), which you describe as “more than a crack addict would spend.” You are more wrong than you could ever imagine on that one. I have overcome crack addiction THREE times and I was spending upwards of $100 DAILY. You claim to have been through all this AA and you honestly sit there and expect me to believe that you truly believe that and/or have never run into a true crack addict? I went to mandatory AA due to a situation I had when I was younger and I met more addicts there than I would have guessed I ever would. Can you honestly sit there and tell me that you KNOW, for a FACT, what kind of money a crack head spends on crack? Have you ever been addicted to it? Better yet, how much did you spend on booze at the store and/or in the bar when you were a drunk? You’re going to sit there and tell me you never spent that much, EVER? I am deeply sorry if you truly did lose your son, but everything else you have said leads me to feel, as some others have mentioned, that you are almost impossible to take seriously. You say kratom led to your son committing suicide. With it may have been a SMALL factor in the overall reasoning behind his decision, I’m afraid you are out of your mind and in more denial than you care to admit. I can honestly assure you, without a shadow of a doubt, your son had more issues than that. Even the fact that he was gay is not a good enough reason; I am, too. I’ve been hooked on marijuana, cocaine, crack, heroine, pain killers, benzos, alcohol and more; I’ve been abducted from my home and SHOT trying to save my own life; I’ve been in car wrecks in which I should have died; and through all of this I was coping with ADHD, OCD, BPD, bi-polar/manic-depression and anxiety as well as taking care of my grandmother through to her death. I was a cutter (and still am on occasion) and have horrible issues with back pain as well as coping with all my mental issues. THOSE are all reasons that can lead to someone wanting to commit suicide and/or carrying through with it. You honestly sound like a hysteric who just wants to outlaw any and all forms of herbal and/or homeopathic medication because you feel that it is the cause of your son’s death. I have to agree with most of the people on here who say that it has been a major help for me. I have been in the psychiatric hospital twice and my meds have been maxed out. All other meds they have tried me on have only made my symptoms worse and/or created new ones. Kratom has been a LIFESAVER, keeping me from wanting to hurt myself or be totally overcome by my mental issues. Yes, I do experience withdrawal symptoms when I run out, but ANYONE can become addicted to ANYTHING; gambling, sex, power, drugs, etc. I also go through withdrawals when I run out of klonopin, which is my break-through anxiety medication. I am currently out of both as well as awaiting my delivery of both, seeing as I leave the house as little as possible due to my mental issues. Combining the withdrawal of both items has caused me to be pretty much confined to my bed and/or bathroom for the past week. Do I abuse either substance from time to time? Yes; I have a very addictive personality, which is why I have been addicted to so many different substances. Does this mean I’m going to go kill myself? No; I got help. My parents put me in the psychiatric hospital when I was at my lowest and supported me emotionally through each of my horrendous addictions WHEN THEY KNEW ABOUT THEM. Here’s something you may not know– KIDS DON’T EVER TELL THEIR PARENTS THE ENTIRE TRUTH! If you come back and tell me you were always truthful and honest with your parents or anyone else you’ve ever been associated with, especially after knowing you were a drunk, I’m going to laugh in your face. I’m an honest enough person to be spilling my heart and soul out, right here, right now; and I am also honest enough to tell you that yes, I DID lie and steal and do unspeakable things to get my fixes. Whenever my parents found out they would do the best to help me, but Ana, your son WAS hiding something from you, no matter how much you don’t want to admit it. I am deeply sorry for your alleged loss, but you have to come to terms with that fact instead of blaming a homeopathic, herbal medication on the death of your son. As to your reference to kratom being banned in Thailand? Like others have mentioned, it was banned due to the fact that it was HELPING PEOPLE TO GET OFF OF OPIUM and TAKING AWAY FROM GOVERNMENT PROFITS! I CANNOT stress that enough! Please, if you are going to make allegations, get all of your facts together and PRESENT THEM ALL instead of picking and choosing the ones that fit your cause for sharing the information.

*steps down from her soap box*

1:36 am November 13th, 2014

Hello folks. I have been clean from kratom since April 1, 2014 after using 6 -8 grams of Maeng Da every day for 2 years. As a highly functioning kratom addict I had to do much soul searching before making the hard decision to quit cold turkey. I have learned much over the past seven months about addiction, kratom, and myself. The following are a synopsis of my experience and lessons learned;

– Be honest. After failing to taper ( @dustin if I wasn’t feeling high I was feeling withdrawal so I found it impossible to taper, everyone is different) I decided to check myself into a one week detox program. It did help alot, especially with the initial Physical withdrawals. As a highly functioning K addict it was my family and friends that were in denial. “your not an addict…addicts are sleeping under the bridge, your just stressed” my father pleaded with me. “Nope…I need help” I replied. I was finally ready.
– Find a good P Doc. I hate to say it, but yes, antidepressents helped me sleep. Trazadone didn’t work, busiprone didn’t work, mrtazapine did the trick. @gina be patient until you find the med that helps you.
– Optomism is everything. For me PAWS was a b%tch. Month 3 was the hardest for some reason. I was really struggling to sleep and smile. But exercise, mirtazapine, and optimism got me through it. Some days I was barely able to laugh at anything, I wanted to explode, but I love myself so I waited it out. IT ABSOLUTELY GETS BETTER.

Seven months clean and sometimes i still feel lost without my daily K dose to look forward to. I had a routine of using kratom, like most of us do. Without that routine the “lost” and “bored” feeling hurts, but it has improved with me week by week. @dustin stay strong brother, don’t give in!

9:11 am November 13th, 2014

I almost forgot to mention something else that bothered me about Ana’s post: There are no drug tests for kratom. I applaud everyone here on this blog who has realized that THEY took kratom to the extreme and are doing what needs to be done as well as seeking out for help. I came to this page as I was searching for ways to help deal with the withdrawals I’m currently experiencing. I was also hoping for some tips as to how to deal with the symptoms and weigh the pros and cons of this wonderful homeopathic medicine that has keep me away from “street drugs” and assisted in leveling out my mental anguish as well as several physical issues as well. Not only does it help with pain, but I have had a MUCH better time coping with the damage done to my intestinal tract due to celiac disease. Those who have realized they took it far and are reaching out to get help? You guys are an inspiration. Whenever I was in deep I always tried to deal with it on my own and I failed until I was always ultimately caught at my lowest points. If kratom is helping you and you can take it responsibly I believe you should continue. It’s no different than watching TV every day and seeing “drink responsibly” ads, IMHO. Good luck to all of you here for help to quit; NEVER GIVE UP!

6:50 pm November 21st, 2014

This fuckin guy suggests going and getting prescribed Valium, a BENZO, to get through your withdrawals. What the fuck is wrong with you man? I’ve been addicted to heroin, meth and benzos for 10 years. I now take kratom 3-4 times a day. I have money in my pocket, I have a (sober) girlfriend of several months, I have my own place to live and I have a job. It’s been nothing but a blessing to me and I can tell you unequivocally, I would be shooting heroin if I didn’t have kratom it in my life. I don’t get high off kratom, it just fills a void that I’ve had in me all these years.

Sure, I don’t recommend taking kratom if you don’t have a drug problem. That’s like taking Suboxone when you’re not an opiate addict. There’s no reason to start digging such a hole. But for people like me, it’s the only answer. And why not? I spend 100 dollars a month on it, it’s legal, and I can finally live my life again.

It’s extremely irresponsible for you to suggest benzos for these people to get through kratom withdrawals. Do you know what benzo withdrawals cause? Seizures. Fucking seizures. You should be ashamed of yourself.

5:14 pm November 22nd, 2014

Bro you are taking it twice a day for that long and not expecting consequences?! There are plenty of warnings you read everywhere saying to use it responsibly and take it once or twice a week. You chose not to do that so you face the consequences. Its your own fault. Is it alcohols fault if a person drinks it everyday all the time? No its the persons fault for being irresponsible and abusing it in the first place.

Man up and take responsibility for your actions instead of blaming a substance that is currently helping Millon’s of people.

4:11 pm November 24th, 2014

True, but if you’re having seizures then you’re going cold turkey. ALWAYS know the withdrawal syndrome symptoms before going cold turkey. Unless you were buying them (I’m gonna assume that’s the case) and you can’t get any for whatever reason. If that’s the case then drinking just might save your ass. Anyways, I know what you mean. Not from benzo’s although I’ve gotten off them tapering. Phenibut (It’s GABA B instead of GABA A, but it affects dopamine as well). The nastiest substance I’ve come across. People have withdrawals after 2-3 days use. Not the worst of it, but can’t sleep for a few days straight and pretty crappy for a week.Crazy thing about phenibut is you can take up to 4 grams and be relaxed like a benzo. You can take 8 grams and be up for a day or two straight, as in 24-48 hours straight and not even feel tired. I didn’t know this and I took it because it helped my fibromyalgia immensely. Well after I had been taking it like a year, a little longer actually, I start having my pain gradually get worse. So I take more and more. I was up 7 days straight, I was having audio hallucinations, hearing smoke alarms chirping bc the battery was dead, and weedeaters (or edgers IDK, lawn stuff) outside my window at 3 in morning wondering WTF are the lawn people doing here. I’m sure as a former meth user you know what I’m talking about. Anyways, I eventually read this about it becoming a stimulant and took 4 grams and it went away. Problem though is my fibro pain kept getting worse. Specifically my back. It’d get real bad a couple days and then ease off. Finally it got so bad I had to go to the hospital and I suspected the phenibut not working right is what it was. Not just the pain, but I wasn’t sleeping. At that point at all, even a minute, didn’t even feel tired. So they gave me (well actually I had to recommend it to them) baclofen another GABA B drug. It worked, my pain eased off and I actually slept. For a week or two as I tapered. THEN I had that same problem with it. My GABA B receptors were messed up or something. So I had to finagle benzo’s and taper off. The Doctor had no notion about how much tolerance I had to this stuff or how strong it was though bc he reeeeeeeeally lowballed it. I didn’t have full unconscious seizures, but just shook reeeeally bad and my legs would turn to jelly and give out on me and I’d shake on the floor and be unable to get up. It sucked. It was nothing like the pain of fibromyalgia, 6 screws in my spine, and 120 mg methadone cold turkey though. I even tried to knock myself out. Only ended up with a huge knot on my forehead though, lol.

6:00 pm November 24th, 2014

Mike, no one knows who you’re referring to.

8:37 pm November 24th, 2014

Ana, I’ve been reading some of the old posts on here and I saw your first one on here. A lot of those symptoms frankly don’t sound like kratom or kava at all. Kava has no withdrawal. I do think it’s a little crappy for kava bars to put kratom in peoples drinks who don’t know what it is really. As for kratom it affects serotonin, delta (at higher doses mu) opiate receptors, and norepinephrine. But the whole leaving home to be by the kava bar (something possible online), not eating, and most of all sometimes being delusional just don’t add up. I also see that you mention that a certain kratom shows up as morphine and codeine on a drug screen. No disrespect ma’am, but I have a feeling kratom was only the tip of the iceberg. Kratom doesn’t show up on a screen. It’s not tested for. It’s various metabolites in no way resemble opiates, only affect the same area in the brain. It’s possible to cut, although unlikely with morphine, and impossible with codeine. Codeine comes two ways. Either in a cough preparation or as pills combined with tylenol. It’s pretty hard, and pointless to use all that WHITE weak codeine to mix into a very dark extract. Now the kratom you mention IS lighter based on the type of kratom used and how it’s extracted. But using codeine w/tylenol would be defeating the purpose because all the white powder used would mostly be the w/tylenol and to have to mix it into so much not to show would basically accomplish nothing but a lot of unnecessary work. To use so little it wouldn’t show up much in the extract coloring wise would be pointless because 1 pill would have to be mixed into numerous grams of extract to not show up. Plus you can just tell from the uniformity of color in the kratom you mention it’s not mixed with anything. Basically codeine showing up in a screen from kratom use is practically an impossibility. I’m gonna go out on a limb here and assume the screen was from your son. So, IF that is so, he was likely using morphine and codeine as well. He very well may have used the kratom more when he couldn’t get those for whatever reason. As many on here have noted, kratom is great for getting off opiates, or using as maintenance instead of suboxone or something else. The angry outbursts you mention in other posts might be during withdrawal periods (believe me I had the same thing with oxy or fentanyl). The lethargy. I believe you mentioned something about out of body experiences though. That one I have absolutely no explanation for, except maybe ketamine (outer body experiences is probably what’s noted most about it) and that’s just speculation. I’ve been an addict (of opiates/opioids) and much of those symptoms sound like real deal opiate use. Kratom was rather benign compared to actual opiates. I used it mainly because it was so effective for fibromyalgia. Not just because of the opiate-ish aspect, but because of the serotonin and norepinephrine aspect. I worked better than the opiates ever did and at first was a great mood lift for someone who suffers from depression. I had none of the issues you describe your son as having with kratom. I knew I was setting myself up for withdrawals one day, I wasn’t a fool. It was worth that at the time and I knew that withdrawals can largely be avoided by tapering extra extra slowly. Over like half a year. Anyways, I think your son had a lot more on his plate than kratom or kava. I also think it would be much easier to tell your parent about a legal plant than about morphine (morphine isn’t or codeine. Morphine isn’t exactly easy to come by either. In a prescription form as a pill it’s rather weak and not exactly sold very much at all on the street. So you can get it from two other things. Poppy seed tea (which would have both morphine and codeine in it just like opium), but most poppy seed sources “treat” the seeds and it’s not really something that happens much anymore. The other source is diacetylmorphine…heroin. It shows up as morphine in a screen. It’s really nothing to be any more upset over than morphine though as it’s morphine that goes through a process and comes out more potent. Meaning you just have to use less. Great Britain uses it instead of morphine for pain relief, but people here would freak out if we did that. This is speculation though and we can’t really know for sure, but if I’m right and it was your sons screen it definitely wasn’t kratom. Unless I’m wrong and it’s something you read on the internet. I typed a search for kratom drug test morphine codeine and found nothing though. I meant no disrespect by any of this, I admire that you’ve tried to tell others so no other parents would lose their son, but I think you’re going after the wrong thing(s) with all due respect. As I’ve said before in another post, I’m very sorry to hear about your son. You did everything you possibly could and when you’ve done all you can, you’ve done all you can. The thing about opiate withdrawal (ESPECIALLY real opiates) is, it will turn you into a person you’re not. With kratom, because it’s also somewhat of a stimulant, with withdrawal you feel extra tired and it’s a little more sedated, but I know with actual opiate withdrawal I turned into a raging angry jerk (punching walls and things) and even stealing from my own grandfather. When he talked to me about it and told me how hurt he was by that (I was always his favorite and he couldn’t have been more loving, not to mention he literally saved my life once) I’ve never felt as low before or since and that was one of the few times I’ve cried as an adult. Well, I guess I was a young adult, Also,I was prone to thinking of doing things I would never in a million years think or do otherwise. Anyways, I wrestled with telling you all this because I don’t want to take away that sense of purpose that posting on this forum gives you. Still post, by all means, give others encouragement. I know it’s not as good as having your son and nothing can replace that, but at least he’s at peace now and he’ll be just the way you remember him before all this when you see him again.

10:49 pm November 24th, 2014

May I ask the point of coming here and bashing people? This IS a site for those who KNOW they took it too far with kratom to get help and advice. I realize I made a rather long winded rant myself, but it wasn’t about insulting those here who are going through withdrawal. If you think kratom withdrawal is a cake walk, especially after taking it daily at high doses, you are severely mistaken. It’s not just one or two nights of being uncomfortable and being unable to sleep. I can honestly say it very highly resembles the WD of heroin or any other opiate. I know this for a fact as I’ve been on heroin, methadone, hydro/oxycodone and an array of other substances. How would you feel if someone were to say some of the same things to you while you whined about how bad the withdrawals from your DOC were? Have some sympathy for Christ’s sake. How many opiate users have used benzos or alcohol to help them though the long days and nights? I can assure you it’s far too large a number to count or even fathom. Detox is no joke no matter what substance you are abstaining from.

4:44 am November 26th, 2014

Very true LC. We’re here for one reason and one reason only To seek information and support, be supported, and support others if we’ve already done it. It was actually a really great guy who helped me through phenibut withdrawals that, despite what I would have preferred I wasn’t able to taper as much as I would have otherwise, made me feel like I should help others as well if at all possible. Doesn’t matter which substance it is (and there’s been quite a few), if I’ve been there and done it, then I’d like to help others. You’re right as well, if you’ve been on it, especially extracts, on a multiple times daily basis then it’s not exactly easy. Everything varies. Also, everything is relative. Meaning that, more than likely, the withdrawals you’re going through or went though most recently are gonna be the worst to you. On top of that, the more times you withdraw from something (and it doesn’t have to be the same exact thing, but rather the same class, like xanax and now ativan, or hydrocodone and now oxycodone) the harder it will be to you. I don’t consider, IMHO, kratom to be as mentally ADDICTIVE (and this may vary between people) as other opiates and opioids, but the physical withdrawals can be just as bad. In fact, considering the serotonin and norepinephrine aspect involved, it can be worse in that respect because of the more neurotransmitters involved. Again, it’s all relative and will vary from person to person. The last thing people need to hear when they’re going through a rough time is “oh, I did that easy”. I know you’re likely referring to something about something else (in that scenario, let’s all act like adults, we don’t need feuds), but I’m just gonna throw that out there.

3:40 pm November 26th, 2014

@Dustin– My most recent withdrawal was a combination of kratom and my prescribed anxiety medication klonopin. Between the two I was in bed for roughly two weeks in complete and utter agony. As you’ve mentioned before, cutting off a benzo like that can be extremely life threatening, especially if you’ve been taking it for years. I didn’t meant to start any feuds; my blood just got to boiling when I began reading some of the recent (and re-reading some of the older) comments about how idiotic and over dramatic some of the commenters here are supposedly acting. Comparing one withdrawal to another is a joke, especially when you consider everyone’s body chemistry is different and all drugs affect us all differently. If that were not the case there would not be so many different drugs on the market that treat the same thing. Have you ever listened to the list of side effects some of these things cause, or what can happen when you abruptly stop them? People think just because kratom isn’t an actual opiate that it can’t affect you the same way as heroin or any of the other major opiates. People also don’t understand what it’s like when you are completely out of your mind and a simple benzo or glass of wine can take the edge off enough that you don’t want to slit yours wrists. Kratom IS getting a bad rep, but it’s because people, admittedly like myself, have overdone it. I agree that not everyone will be addicited to everything they try, however, like myself there are many people with addictive personalities that seem to just trade off from one drug to another. Sometimes it’s not even a drug; as I’ve mentioned before it can be gambling, sex, money, power, etc. I just wish people would take a second and think about what it felt like when they were at rock bottom or withdrawing and imagine what it would feel like if someone put them down or told them they were overreacting and that it’s a walk in the park compared to what they went through.

7:22 pm November 27th, 2014

Hello, I am 6 months pregnant. My psych stopped my alprazolam and I stopped getting treated with Subutex because I didn’t want to be punished for getting help (DHS investigation, keeping the baby, etc). So with nowhere else to turn I read about and started using kratom for my anxiety. Now I’m thousands of miles from home and out. My husband abruptly cut me off. I already have depression and anxiety. Are there any other herbs that will help? Valerian root maybe? I don’t want the baby to be hurt just because no one will treat me. Thanks.

12:01 pm November 28th, 2014

Hi Erin. Congradulations, you’re going to be a mamma soon! My most honest advise is to talk to a doctor and a gyneachologist, they can give you solid guidance and take your and your baby’s health into consideration. Wish you all the best.

7:25 am December 1st, 2014

I have been using kratom daily for over a year. I use about 14 grams a day. I suffer from fibromyalgia which causes severe pain. I do not use kratom to get high. Is it possible to taper off with little to no discomfort? I also have very severe depression and am in the middle of a divorce. Advice?

3:31 pm December 3rd, 2014

Hey Ryan, I’ve got Fibro also. Yes, you can taper, the question is how fast though. I had to go super slow when I did it, but it was rather painless. How under control is your fibro now? I take Lyrica, but I’ve been on it 10 years or so, so I’m so used to it I don’t think it even helps anymore. Other than NOT having very painful withdrawals from Lyrica, lol. I took enriched which is either like 3 or 4 times as strong as plain leaf (based on price, it’s roughly 2x as strong as enhanced, which is roughly 2x as strong as regular). Now if you’re just taking plain leaf and it’s only 14 grams a day(sounds like you only take it once or twice a day, so you have some decent breaks in between daily), then you’re in luck because that’s a rather low amount. I have the dubious honor of having an addictive personality and chronic pain, so when I take painkillers (anything with an opiate effect, kratom included although a little less cravings from it and a little more pain relief from it than “regular” pharma opiates/opioids) I end up taking it every 4-6 hours. One key thing is the lower you go, the slower you go. That’s a general rule when tapering (I’ve tapered from many things many times) and doubly so when you have fibro and get pain relief from it. So if I were you and wanting to make it really easy on myself and took it once a day, I’d just take a gram less than what you do now (so 13 grams) for week. If you take it twice, then .5 grams per dose per day. How ever often you take it, just do it so the total amount daily you’re going down on is 1 gram. If that goes with no real issues after 4 or 5 days, then try 1.5 or two grams a day. You’ll have to play with it a little and find the point where you start having a little discomfort (and I mean literally just a little). That will be your general daily taper amount for a decent period of time. Then as you get lower when that amount gives you a little more trouble than before, just knock it back the daily lowering amount by like 25%. Meaning if you were tapering 1 grams less a day, then go to .75 grams less per day, per week. A week is generally a standard amount of time per drop for most things. Anyways, don’t worry about the tapering, you control that, so find the amount that you can handle pretty well with little to no discomfort. It’s not a race. Try not to take anything else, except for general OTC the stuff, when tapering so you don’t end up with something else you have to taper off of. Meaning, no prescription sleep aids, or anything of that nature. If it’s uncomfortable just reduce the amount of grams you’re dropping until it works for you well and that’s for both the pain and depression. You don’t want either to get very noticeably worse so that it will be easy for you to stick with it and not give up. If you have any questions just ask.

8:44 am December 4th, 2014

Kratom is an Asian tea leaf that offers relief to a wide variety of human ailments. It was founded on South- East area. The Kratom culture and use was recently restricted to southeastern Asia, where it was used locally in recreational relaxant. Kratom leaves are a handpicked leaves which can be used for preparing tea or coffee.

5:58 pm December 5th, 2014

kratom man she is a double eged sword so great but also bad the yin and yang everthing has well exept Rx’s the are just straight up god awful and in my opinion the people who make them prescribe them and allow them to be legal should be burned at the stake or tied up basted with butter put in a boat and sent out in to a warm tropical ocean to be eaten alive by maggots. but enough with torture techniques i would like to see happen to the lieing money above all pigs of the world. now i will begin my story with my mistress M she can be heaven or hell it is entirely up to you as others have stated. If you choose to over indulge you will eventually have to pay the piper so to speak, we all do at some time for everything we do. you can have a beer once or twice a week and you will be fine, BUT! if you have a six pack or two a night guess what you will become addicted and most likely ruin your life probably more so than if you take copious amounts of kratom, well not probably you will its a fact that alchohol is much more inehbreating than kratom and you can and people commonly do die from long term alchol abuse with drawls is it illegal no its encouraged to use and even abuse and sold in almost every store. despite this there is education on alchohol and many people indulge responsibly and do not have or cause any problems with it or because of it. but then there are the others. so yes kratom can be problematic if its abused i have learned this in the past thru personal experience and i suffered very real w/d’s. do I think it should be illegal because i was undereducated and generaly ignorant not only no BUT HELL NO!!!!!! If used responsibly like many have said above it can be a great replacment for many of the b.s. rx meds that the money hungry owners of this planet give you so they can get you addicted and sick so there pockets can grow larger. or maybe even a little fun for SOME TIMES. so yah for all of you who have been thru or are going thru k w/d’s I feel for you stay strong steadfast and once it’s over if you know you cannot handle it stay away from it learn from your past people. but do not continue to abuse it and whine about its addictive properties, and try and say that we need our mommy government to come in and control another one of our personal decisions. that we do not need just man the fuk up and take control of your own life. get well and stand up for our dieing liberties and againnst all the corperate brain washing that tells you what some liar in a suit says is best for you is think for yourself and good luck my best wishes for all of you who are going thru hell right now push on you can do anything you put your mind to i know ho cliche but true.

10:24 am December 6th, 2014

LC, Chris, Mike, Dustin – I agree with u guys 100%. Kratom IS the lesser evil and has helped a lot of people including myself.
So many drugs ruin people, alcohol as well. Kratom has kept me away from illegal drugs. It allows me to be highly productive and happy around people. I don’t feel ashame for taking it, the cost is next to nothing, and getting it is just a few clicks away. I compare its benefits similar to weed but I’d much rather take Kratom. Unfortunately I can’t. My test result today finally confirmed KRATOM was the culprit of high elevated enzymes in my liver. I had to go through a month of withdrawal, feeling hopelessness and depression without Kratom. Phew…IT WAS A RELIEF TO KNOW IT WAS KRATOM AND NOT CANCER!!! For those of you who wants to stay off Kratom, I hope this would be encouraging enough for you.
Ana-I am very sorry for your loss. I could imagine the tremendous pain you must have gone through. Last year, I saw on the news about a family in my hometown that lost a son/husband to a seizure and they blamed his death on Kratom. They were on the media trying to pass a law to put a ban on Kratom. When I heard the news, I was outraged. As a former opiate user, it would eliminated my recovery option. I know for a fact the chance of one dying from a heroin or oxy overdose is much higher than with Kratom. I had several experiments in the early phase of using, I tried to sober up combining huge doses of Kratom while drunk. I ended up puking my guts off. I guess If one can die from alcohol poisoning, then overdosing on Kratom is possible but perhaps less likely by itself. I say this because Kratom doesn’t give me the impairing effect as it does with alcohol. I’m reaching out to you, hoping you can understand the other side of the spectrum. Few weeks ago, I was feeling very depressed fr withdrawal. One day, I looked down fr my bookshelf and saw the book w/ the title “Through time into healing” by Brian Weiss. It wasn’t mine and I had no idea how it got there. I picked it up, a few pages into it I didn’t down. Within a short period of time, i finished the entire book. I can’t guarantee this book will do the same for you but as it did for me, I highly recommend it. I’d be more than happy to send it to you if you want to read it? That’s all I have for now. I’m here to offer my support and seek support.

9:21 pm December 6th, 2014

Im on day 5 since ditching kratom. I have been taking it for just over a year. I have tried to quit before but always returned. This time I.m don. So day 5and I’m feeling not so good. Insomnia, restlessness in bed. When I’m at work I think about bed and sleepin, but the moment my head hits the pillow I’m starting to feel this annoying tingling in my legs which make me toss and turn constantlyI am somewhat depressed but nothing I can’t manage. Physically I feel tired, disinterested and unmotivatedOn top of all that I have this constant need to swallow. The worst of all this is the insomnia,apathy and the length of time this is taking. Every day I hope that tomorrow I will see some improvement but nope, another crappy day. I will never return to K. It is a energy and motivation boosting substance but there is a price you have to pay for it in the end. I think it’s not worth it.i also feel cheated because I believed those marketing stories that the withdrawals from K are reminiscent to those of coffee. Nothing further from the truth. Kratom withdrawals are way worse and they take a while to go away. Use those sleepless nights to rethink your life without substances.

11:56 am January 5th, 2015

Everyone has a story so here’s mine.
I started off using recreational drugs in highschool and once out of high school and working I had a depressing day and went downtown and picked up some heroin. I only did it once but it would not be my last time. A year or so later I dont know what compelled me but I started snorting then IV it. I had a 1-2 year cycle of that; going through w/d’s then on methadone back on heroin; sometimes using kratom to mask the w/d symptoms of heroin when I didnt want to take methadone. I was a mess.

So 2 years ago I was completely off of all opiates and things were good except I started drinking and I had somewhat of an addiction to it because I have an addictive personality. About a year ago I started down a path to using kratom extensively. At first it started using it only at night and it replaced drinking alcohol which was a real plus for me. After awhile I would have to use kratom in the morning just to get going again because I would be up late. A few months into that regiment I had to dose during the day aswell or I would start to feel tired while at work. There were times where caffeine wouldnt even do anything for me except make me tired so I would have to dose while driving just to wake myself up again.

I am now in school and I feel like I use it just to feel normal. I am usually always warm and feel sweaty all day. My GF really dislikes me using it all of a sudden (she doesnt really know its effects and realized I “need” it).
Over the past weekend I have stopped taking it because my shipment has not come in. I felt really bad one morning and I did what I would usually do when I did not have any opiates and picked up some t1’s from the pharmacy just so it would help me get through the w/d. I find that it really helps, It helps take the edge off of the withdrawals being a weak opiate. I was not doing a huge amount of kratom at this time maybe 10g a day spaced out 3 times a day.
The first night I barely got any sleep and with the t1’s the second night it let me get almost a full nights sleep, I am coming to the end of my 3rd day and I am feeling much better already. The worst of it is the RLS and I have sore feet. My energy level is ok but sometimes I feel like I really want to rest and lay down.
I dont think the rest of the w/d’s will really be that bad. I am back to school tomorrow and I am hoping I will stay motivated enough in class!

11:56 am January 5th, 2015

Everyone has a story so here’s mine.
I started off using recreational drugs in highschool and once out of high school and working I had a depressing day and went downtown and picked up some heroin. I only did it once but it would not be my last time. A year or so later I dont know what compelled me but I started snorting then IV it. I had a 1-2 year cycle of that; going through w/d’s then on methadone back on heroin; sometimes using kratom to mask the w/d symptoms of heroin when I didnt want to take methadone. I was a mess.

So 2 years ago I was completely off of all opiates and things were good except I started drinking and I had somewhat of an addiction to it because I have an addictive personality. About a year ago I started down a path to using kratom extensively. At first it started using it only at night and it replaced drinking alcohol which was a real plus for me. After awhile I would have to use kratom in the morning just to get going again because I would be up late. A few months into that regiment I had to dose during the day aswell or I would start to feel tired while at work. There were times where caffeine wouldnt even do anything for me except make me tired so I would have to dose while driving just to wake myself up again.

I am now in school and I feel like I use it just to feel normal. I am usually always warm and feel sweaty all day. My GF really dislikes me using it all of a sudden (she doesnt really know its effects and realized I “need” it).
Over the past weekend I have stopped taking it because my shipment has not come in. I felt really bad one morning and I did what I would usually do when I did not have any opiates and picked up some t1’s from the pharmacy just so it would help me get through the w/d. I find that it really helps, It helps take the edge off of the withdrawals being a weak opiate. I was not doing a huge amount of kratom at this time maybe 10g a day spaced out 3 times a day.
The first night I barely got any sleep and with the t1’s the second night it let me get almost a full nights sleep, I am coming to the end of my 3rd day and I am feeling much better already. The worst of it is the RLS and I have sore feet. My energy level is ok but sometimes I feel like I really want to rest and lay down.
I dont think the rest of the w/d’s will really be that bad. I am back to school tomorrow and I am hoping I will stay motivated enough in class!

2:23 am January 6th, 2015

I have been using Kratom daily for about 8 months or so.. not very much like half a teaspoon in the morning and the same once or twice throughout the day…I just found out I’m 12 weeks pregnant.. If I quit cold turkey is it going to harm my baby?

9:03 pm January 13th, 2015

I was an opiate pill taker for five years until I almost lost everything in my life. I woke up one day and said this is it, not more. I went threw withdrawls and had a friend help me out giving me suboxin. Well the day came were i had to move out of state and lost my suboxins. I went through hard withdrawls for a month. I finally got out of bed and relapsed that day…why did I do that. ..i took a suboxin…Now there i was depended on subs. Gezzz I couldn’t win and hated my self for doing that.. well I finally got help by a.program that I did for two and a half years and I ruined my program by not going to some meetings. I got kicked out. Beating myself up again…i wasn’t ever going on pills or suboxin again cause I noticed suboxin was just another drug I had to get out of my system. ..Go figure! Well those two things were not in my life anymore and nor I was going to let be…i was going to go withdrawls before I took those two again. So I found a head shop that sold kratom…bali. that was i have been taking convinced it’s not a drug just plants. Lol now I am addicted to kratom. Help me ….i can do this if I just new an easier was to let this kratom go..

11:58 pm January 15th, 2015

This is my story with kratom. About a year ago I started taking kratom to get off heroin. It worked like a charm. First few days were bad but after that I functioned well on it. By the end though things were a mess. I was angry and disconnected from my wife. It wasn’t like being in the chaos of a heroin addiction, but being physically dependent on ANYTHING is enough to stress you out. I’m pretty experienced with withdrawals from opiates, that’s not to say I deal with them well (I am a very weak person when I’m withdrawling) just that I knew what to expect. I hoped that the kratom wd would not be as bad. I was wrong. Maybe it was bc I used (opiates) some throughout the year on kratom, and like maybe it all mashed itself into one painful opiate/kratom wd, I don’t know how it works, but I know that it was not very much different from a heroin detox. In fact I think it’s taking longer to get through it. I’m 15 days into my detox. Still not sleeping well, but thank god I can get some sleep. Sorry to say but that just started 2 nights ago. I don’t get it bc some days this week were good and then some days later in the detox it’s like I feel worse. Like some days I’m going backwards. Maybe it’s dehydration or lack of food or sleep, but when is this going to end? I chose to do my detox over a christmas/new years break from work. Ive got 3 days left until I go back. How long will this take? I don’t know the exact amount of kratom I was taking daily, but I know it was a good amount. And I always changed up what kind I’d get to keep it fresh. Seemed like when I changed kratom types I got a nicer buzz. I just want my life back. I want to be the man who my wife married again. The depression these past two weeks is crippling. I feel manic. One minute I’m so damn happy that I’ve gone this long without kratom, then the next minute I’m crying bc life is so hopeless. Way worse mentally than heroin wd are. Maybe it’s just that I have something in my life worth losing now, and I just never cared before. I know ill get through it. But God damn if payback ain’t a f@cking b!tech. If anyone just had any kind or motivational words to throw my way it would be greatly appreciated. Also some idea of when ill start feeling better. I’ve read almost every post on here, and I’ve got a pretty good idea of how long. But I’m still asking for yalls experience with your detoxes from kratom. Thanks guys.

12:04 am January 16th, 2015

Ashley I would def talk to a doctor about that. Back in my heroin addiction I knew a girl in the same situation who said that a doctor told her that the detox could do harm. I’ve got no idea as to the legitimacy of her statement. Maybe she created that excuse so that she could continue to justify using heroin during her pregnancy. But either way, you should try to talk to a doctor. A lot of times they answer yahoo questions and web md questions. I mean you can usually tell if someone knows what the hell their talking about online. That would be second to seeing a doc if that is possible.

3:44 am January 17th, 2015

I’m so sorry for those of you who are suffering within those silent walls of addiction. I remember suffering like this in my own addiction to alcohol. I was drinking til I blacked out and one time I had put a chicken in the oven and blacked out, which for me was like being asleep. I came outa the blackout 3-4 hours later and my apt was all filled with smoke. I just couldn’t seem to stop drinking on my own. I know your pain tho I never did hard drugs. I was a daily black-out drunk with an acid tongue. With all of this being said, I understand many of the things so many of you have shared. I can appreciate your honesty on this blog. Thank you to those of you who understand the tremendous loss, I, as parent feels regarding their only child taking his life after relapsing on Kratom. I got sober in 1994, April 16th, bc I had a beautiful Baby boy named Ian who was born with craniostenosis and pyloric stenosis. I sat at night and drank myself to sleep on a 2 liter bottle of wine asking why God would out me through such suffering, out my Baby through multiple surgeries, my only child. I felt guilt, remorse, shame bc I couldn’t stop. Addiction of any kind, be it drugs or alcohol is a horrible plague to have to live with. At least it seemed this way for me. I wanted to end my own life at age 19, bc I was a hard liquor drunk. I thought I could stay clean on my own after spending some time in 12 step. I was wrong and though I switched from hard liquor to beer and wine during the next 11 years, I ended up right back in the same place…suffering, depression, remorse, feeling like a failure. I got sober for my son and I stayed sober. My son is dead bc he went through the same thing in his own life. Unfortunately, he was only 20 when he gave up on trying to give his sobriety a chance. Our brains do not have the capacity to just return to normal immediately after the years of damage we’ve inflicted on the delicate organ, the brain. For some it takes months and for others…it can take years. The fact is, it can be done. Sobriety can be maintained as we allow ourselves to heal and begin to work on the underlying issues as to why we “picked up” in the first place. What was missing for me? I, like my son, had a great childhood. I came from a loving family, why me? What is my purpose in all of this? Now that my son is gone, I still ask myself, as a person, with a disease of Substance Use Disorder, why did this event have to happen to me, to my son? Some days I feel like rotting away in my bed. My son will never walk through my front door again. I will never see his smile that could light up a room. I will never hear those words again, “love you Mom”! Be it Overdose, accident, or suicide…this is the true face of addiction that we all are on here talking about. All the loss, all the depression, withdrawals, sickness…we have a disease that affects our mental, our spiritual and our physical aspects of living daily. This is my own truth and I really do appreciate hearing from each of you and love you…feel your pain, want you to know this. Will do everything in my power to help us…in recovery and in our sickness, find the help we need, have the fair treatment we demand, strive for breaking the stigma of addiction. Any substance we willingly put into our body that is mind altering can lead each of us to this place where no one should ever have to go. Wishing each of you to find a place of hope… peace and serenity in your daily battle. We can overcome this battle! We truly can! I’m just a Mom, a recovering drunk, who’s lost her only kid, who happened to state he was addicted to Kratom. Those were his own words not mine.

11:24 pm January 23rd, 2015


In previous comments you mentioned that your son popped positive on a drug test for kratom which, first and foremost, don’t exist as myself and several others have pointed out. Now you’ve just said, and I quote, “I’m just a Mom, a recovering drunk, who’s lost her only kid, who happened to state he was addicted to Kratom. Those were his own words not mine.” If you want to be here for those who are suffering, I highly respect that. I respect your courage for sharing your story, but as I’ve said before it changes so frequently that it causes myself and others to not believe some, if not all of it. We are all on the road to recovery together. I’m not sure what it is, but I feel there are more underlying problems than you have revealed. I’m certainly not a psychologist nor am I in any way trying to pass myself off as a professional on the subject; just to be clear. I would love for you to continue on your path of emotional, mental and substance abuse recovery. I encourage you to rebuild your life and hold you son’s memory in your heart for now and ever. I urge you to continue to fight addiction and help others in their recovery, yet I honestly feel you need someone who’s there for you. I think your comments here have been a cry for help, even if you don’t recognize them as such. It would make a lot of sense considering the many changes in your story. Let us be here for you, but please be honest in what you share or others will be apt to not take you seriously or listen to what you have to say. We’re all here to support each other. You’re anonymous here; no one is going to find you where you live or work and try to tell everyone your situation. Stop villainizing kratom as something that is evil and should be abolished. Taken properly and in moderation it is a wonderful medicinal plant that helps with pain, anxiety, getting off of street drugs and so much more. It’s all about controlling yourself, which most of us are incapable of as we are addicts and tend to always overdo it. I wish you the best and apologize for anything I’ve said in the past that may or may not have offended you. I’ve had time to think about it and I believe you are someone in need of a friend.


7:21 pm January 26th, 2015

Hi all, i.see this is an old discussion, but just found this and wanted to vent, whether anyone sees this or not. I have suffered with anxiety and depression for several years. Tried many different anti depressant but all of them had such bad side effects i never stuck with them. I came across kratom about a year ago. It really helped me be a LOT be productive and have a much happier, less stressful life. I started using it every day and now i realize that maybe its not such a good thing. So i let myself run out and here i am on the first day with none. I am so tired. I just cant find any motovation. Im at work and have a very fast paced labor intensive job. This is so hard. Im taking 5 htp to help. I am kind of lost right now and just dont want to do anything but crawl back in bed. Any ideas for energy??? I do eat healthy and exercise. Thanks.

5:50 am January 27th, 2015

LC – She said kratom gold showed as codeine and morphine in a drug screen. I assume it was her sons, but I don’t know that for 100% sure. I assume her son was using other opiates as well as kratom. I don’t really know. That would be the explanation for that and it’s very easy to get codeine which is converted into morphine in the body. It shows as codeine and morphine in a screen. Poppy seed tea, which has opium residue on the poppy seeds, will also show as codeine and morphine. Heroin shows as just morphine. I don’t think she’s making anything up and I respect her for telling her story and trying to encourage those who are trying to quit. I don’t agree with any kratom ban either though. If it’s not kratom, then it’ll be other things kids get into. Look at the research chemical craze right now. So many kids taking drugs that they have no idea what the long term effects are. All legally, and when a ban happens, they have new stuff ready to replace what’s being banned, There will always be something. Kratom is something you can’t overdose on and the only issue with it might be an addictive aspect for those who HAVE ADDICTIVE PERSONALITIES. If it’s not kratom it will come out with some other substance. If you are an addict personality wise, you will 9/10 find out one way or another eventually. Whether it’s drugs, sex, gambling, shopping, etc… Anyways, kratom helps immensely with fibromyalgia, but my damned addictive nature ruined that for me. It wasn’t anything like what I went through with oxy and dilaudid. I never had to hit “rock bottom” with kratom. I just realized I was having to take it bc I had a tolerance and it wasn’t benefitting me anymore, so I started my sloooooooow taper. End of story, You gotta understand though, she associates kratom with her sons death. Addiction was the cause though. Plain and simple. If he didn’t have the addictive personality then it wouldn’t have happened. Period. I really do feel for her though and welcome her to keep posting positive motivating posts to help those who’ve made the decision to stop their use of kratom. I also hope she understands that probably half the people getting off kratom were using harder drugs and switched to kratom as a part of their journey to sobriety. I’ve used the pharma “go-to” drug for getting off things like methadone and it seems that getting off that is almost just as bad as getting off methadone or oxy. Kratom helps a LOT of people in this respect.

Cyndia – If you are able to you should really taper and not just cold turkey quit. It’s only going to get harder the next few days and by stopping cold turkey, you’re setting yourself up for post acute withdrawal syndrome. Most people who do what you’re doing feel the fatigue and lack of motivation, as well as being unhappy, for about a month. Thats on top of the week of acute withdrawals you have the first week. Kratom effects endorphins, serotonin, and norepinephrine, so you’re messing with quite a bit of your neurotransmitters in your brain. You get a tolerance because receptor sites for these neurotransmitters reduce/die off in order to balance things out because of the extra being released through taking kratom. So the first 3 days you quit, your body is figuring out “oh, the kratoms not there anymore, I gotta start doing my thing again.” The 3rd days is the worst and on roughly the 4th your brain veeeeeery slowly starts to rebuild your lost receptors. After a week the worst is over, but the fatigue,motivation, and mood aspect can last a month. BUT if you taper like I keep telling people to do, you can have a MUCH easier time with getting off and avoiding the month of crap that cold turkey gets you. I went through it with methadone and had to take (prescribed) tranquilizers bc I was so on edge and my chest was tight (like a panic attack 24/7) and my heart was beating out of my chest it felt like. This was a month after I quit cold turkey. I really wish people would listen to my advice. Not proud or bragging, but I’ve gotten off opiate/opioids (including times my prescription ran out a couple days early) IDK 40 ti mes maybe? I really can’t even say. By the time you get this though, unless you have a place you can drive to and buy nearby, you’ll be in the worst stages. I wish you the best and if you manage to get some and fail in getting off, that’s OKAY. Just try again and TAPER slowly this time. It also all depends on how much you take, how often, and for how long too. Post me a message though if you need help with a taper. Anyways, as for energy, off the top of my head I got nothing that won’t make your symptoms worse.

3:06 pm January 27th, 2015


I just go by everything I’ve read. I’ve re-read every post and things change each time. Either way, like I said, I believe there are more underlying problems and she needs support as much as she’s trying to give it.

5:31 am January 28th, 2015

I’ve had a 20 gram a day addiction to Kratom for 2.5 years. In the beginning it served the purpose of completely getting me off alcohol, which was very destructive to my life and relationships. The first time I experienced withdrawals I was in hawaii and didn’t have my usual dose before bed. It felt like I was going to jump out of my skin at night and I felt depressed and lonely during the day (which is odd, because I was in tropical paradise). After 3 days I was over the physical discomfort and on day 5 or 6 I was over the depression. It helped to go for runs by the beach each morning. The other time..I went through acute withdrawal in Chicago and had a few tears, went looking for it during the trip and finally settled on having zero for the week. My absolute WORST withdrawal experience was when I decided to quit my antidepressants two weeks prior and then kratom at the same time. I broke out into hot and cold sweats and had to go through 5 changes of clothes per day, it was basically like a horrible flu. What’s difficult is your just 1 dose away from feeling better. BUT that is the key. Don’t be afraid to make yourself tea with 1 tiny teaspoon of kratom to cope as you taper. I have now realized that quitting cold turkey when kratom is just an email order away or in the house is completely irresponsible. It’s also irresponsible for those of us that have jobs and lives to attend to (pretty much everyone). It does nothing but bring complete fear to our lives to expect oneself to withdraw from an opiate-like substance when every doctor prescribes a taper schedule successfully for their patients. The responsible thing to do is to a taper. Gradually reduce the amount every day. This is what I am doing and so far, so good. I was on 15 grams last week and now I’m on 3.5 grams a day. Wish me luck.

8:41 am January 29th, 2015

I’ve got 29 days under my belt clean off of Kratom. I was taking about 6 teaspoons of regular powder a day for three years. I also had (have) an alcohol problem where I was drinking about 8 drinks a day, in short period of time, and just passing out. That was going on a couple years. Honestly I didn’t realize that Kratom was so highly addictive until it was too late and I just get using it to make the withdrawals go away.

About 5 or 6 weeks ago I decided to start tapering down from 6 to 5 teaspoons a day. Everything was going well until a week later I was at work and felt flu like symptoms coming on. I went home and spent three long days curled up on the couch and on the bed only to finally realize I was having really bad and painful withdrawals from Kratom and that I didn’t have the flu. The intense withdrawals went away after 3 or 4 days and then the anxiety hit like a freight train. It was absolutely horrible, worse than the physical withdrawals from the previous days. Then a sense of utter hopelessness and impending and unavoidable doom overwhelmed me and in that moment I decided that I needed to get myself clean. Remember I was still taking 5 teaspoons a day and still going through this shit and drinking. I had detoxed from alcohol once before on my own and learned never do it on your own because it’s very dangerous. I decided to check myself into a hospital for alcohol detox and go into rehab and in the process kick the kratom.

My situation was unique in that I had a medically supervised detox from alcohol and and kratom. My first doctor knew nothing about the kratom and offered to put me on suboxone which I declined. For the alcohol they put me on a 5 day librium taper which definitely fixed the anxiety issues from the kratom withdrawal but did nothing for the horrible RLS that I had for the next 4 days once I stopped the kratom all together. I took ambien and zaniflex every night and still only slept a couple hours due to the RLS. After a week all seemed well and I never experience any severe withdrawal symptoms from the kratom. Only during the taper from 6 to 5 tsp’s did I have the horrible withdrawals which was surprising to me not to have them once quitting for good. I did however have lingering symptoms during the day that were bearable such as heaving sweating, sensitivity to hot and cold and burning legs and feet.

Around day 10 a new set of symptoms kicked in only at night when going to bed. I would get really hot, no matter how cold it was and instead of RLS and started getting muscle spasms in the legs and arms where my limbs would move and or contract involuntarily preventing me from sleeping. Thankfully I was now at an addiction treatment center and my new doctor had experience with patients who used kratom. At this point I wasn’t taking sleep meds but since I was now unable to sleep I was prescribed Clonodine for the legs / withdrawal symptoms and melatonin for sleep. Surprisingly the Clonidine worked really well for the night time twitching and sweating symptoms. I would have taken it during the day also but it made my blood pressure very low so I can only take a small dose once a day at night.

Here I am at day 29, I still am taking the Clonidine, sometimes .05 mg’s, sometimes .1 mgs each night and 2.5 mgs of melatonin. Sleep is good, not great and my energy levels during the day are the same, good but not great. It’s crazy to still have lingering withdrawals 29 days into this. Mentally I feel good and sometimes really good and I think I attribute that to going through this kratom kick with help from friends, family, work and other patients I went through rehab with together. If I just tried to kick the kratom on my own and isolated going through the withdrawals all by myself then it would have been a very different experience. I’m not saying people should go through rehab from kratom because I did it for the alcohol, but doing it through a controlled and medically supervised environment, it seems like my experience has been much easier than other users have reported.

8:08 pm February 9th, 2015

@Dustin – The more I visit and read this thread, the further away I am from Kratom (8 months since I went cold turkey), and the more I reflect upon my own experience, you have the tiger by the tail on this one. I would manage to assume with good certainty that there are MANY here who have benefited and will benefit from the time you’ve taken to help your fellow humans.

11:17 pm February 10th, 2015

Thanks, I appreciate it. I’ve been off kratom a long time though. Just go on here to help bc I’ve been through it so many times and there was someone to help me quit phenibut who had done it before because I had no experience with quitting it and it’s extremely dangerous to quit (like alcohol). The hospital knew nothing about phenibut, I had to walk them through it practically. So I help with both. Anyways, the reasons kratom takes so much longer everyone is because it’s messing with other receptors others than just opiate receptors. The serotonin aspect is what really makes things last the longest and why I caution against cold turkey. It might seem like it will get things over with quicker, but your body adjusts at it’s own pace. Cold turkey leads to past acute withdrawals which is why it seems to go on for a month/months for some people. Dosage is another factor, For those who plan to go back and “use it occasionally” you’re just going backwards. It will be worse each time as well. I remembered my first time as a breeze the last time I got off for good (other than kratom which I tapered over half a year).

3:44 pm February 22nd, 2015

I just found out that my husband is addicted to kratom. He was taking 80 pills a day. I think that is 40 grams per day. I think hes been doing them for almost 1 year working his dosage up. He has had dependency issues in the past. He is afraid of withdraws. He says he will be sick if he stops. He did cut back one hole dose of 20 pills a day, so hes down to 60 pills a day. He said his head hurts so bad. Is this the way to go to slowly taper back? Or is it best to go cold turkey? How is the best way for me to be supportive for him? Any ideas, thanks in advance.

Charles B
6:38 pm February 22nd, 2015

I think this is a great thread and I want to share my story. I suffer from Bipolar II, anxiety, depression and alcoholism. A friend turned me on to kratom about 2 years ago and I have been taking it daily for about a year. Like many, it has been pretty much a life saver for me in regards to mental well being especially with alcohol. I hardly ever drink anymore and if I do, it’s usually socially and I can stop anytime after a few, where as before, once I started I couldn’t stop and drank almost daily and alone. It has also helped me get off my meds that I couldn’t stand taking like many others.

Pretty much the only side effect for me has been a little constipation, which I can tolerate. I take a few grams in the morning and a few more in the evening. I sleep great as well. However, if I don’t take kratom for about 36-48 hours, I start having the withdrawal symptoms which are horrific. The headaches, anxiety, nausea and insomnia are awful. Once I take it again though, they subside in about 10-15 minutes. So I know now that I am pretty much addicted to it but not in a bad way. I don’t take it to get high, I take it like I would my medications. It hasn’t destroyed my life at all like alcohol did. I’d much rather be doing kratom than any other drug out there for my mental well-being. I just hope they don’t make it illegal because then i will be in trouble but I’ll cross that bridge if or when I come to it.

My advice to anyone would be, if you don’t suffer from addiction or mental health issues, then don’t start taking it whatsoever unless it’s very sparingly. It is addictive and has bad withdrawal symptoms. I’ve never done heroine before but I guess it’s similar to that according to many others. Anyway, that’s my story and i wish everyone who is trying to quit well and hope for the best.

4:41 pm February 23rd, 2015


Your questions have already been answered numerous times. Look for replies from Dustin and a few others for solid information which will help.

But in a nutshell? TAPER SLOOOOOWLY. A few people say cold turkey was the only way for them, but I think cold turley is a terrible idea. It’s Hell and your husband would prob have to take time off work for a couple weeks (or more) to go through it. Just taper slowly…

…unless he actually does need the kratom each day for pain or some other reason. I have used kratom each day for a while and it hasn’t had any negative effects. It does me much more good then bad. It doesn’t cost me much either.

4:22 pm February 28th, 2015

I have been trying to quit kratom for about 6 months now. The longest I have gone without it is 40 days. I always fall back into it because I feel like an empty shell of a human being without it. No energy, no drive, no happiness, no excitement for life. I suppose I have always felt I needed something to make me feel better about life. In my teens and twenties I was a binge drinker. Like many I found kratom as a better option than alcohol as booze was ruining my life. I have lost two brothers at a young age one got killed while in the army serving in Iraq the other committed suicide. I was very close with both and it has destroyed me. I work a job that is very stressful and demanding, and just this fall my wife was diagnosed with cancer and is going through chemo. All of which have contributed to my anxiety and depression. I am married and have two little ones and am determined to live a sober life for them. I am on day 4 and my goal is to go 90 days. I hear that is what it takes before you truly start feeling better before I reasses the situation. I got really discouraged at 40 days when I still felt I was in a funk, but I guess years of abuse to the brain takes time to heal fully. I have used kratom for 2.5 years now along with phenibut,nootropics, and any painkillers I can get my hands on.I am trying to quit it all. Like I said this is day 4 my goal is 90 days before I reassess. Anybody who has any Tips or support would be appreciated.

6:39 pm March 7th, 2015

Well I am on day 11 on day 5 I went to look for supplements that could help and came across Sam-e. I have been taking it for 6 days now. It has definitely helped calm my anxious mind and given me a more positive outlook. Any advice from anyone on Sam-e I am worried about getting hooked on another substance, but so far I have found this very helpful. My body is still in constant pain. I would compare it to a machine running without any lubrication “opiates” for the body. I was sitting in the hospital yesterday with my wife and out of nowhere my neck froze up and it hurt to look in any direction IT lasted until we left and I got moving again. I have ran 3 days this week 30 mins on the treadmill. Each time definitely helps the mind and body. I am setting goals to start running 5 k’s this summer and lose about 30 lbs to take the pressure of my joints. Making it through a stressful work week without kratom was something that seemed like a mountain to overcome and to be honest it was not all that bad I was to busy to think about the pain I was in. Looking to get in another run today and pretty much chill with the kids around the house. It is saturday and cold and snowy out.

2:50 am March 8th, 2015

I have been on kratom for about 4 months now. I have been taking roughly 20 grams a day every day and I quit 4 days ago. I’ve got to say, WDs have been pretty tolerable if not altogether mild for me. I’m no stranger to opiates and opiate wd. I began taking Oxy’s and Vikes in 2006 post shoulder surgery and developed a pretty nasty dependency issue. After 2 years, I moved out of state and was forced to quit ct. I stayed clean for about 2 years until I re-injured my shoulder. I told my Dr about my affliction with painkillers so he prescribed me tramadol claiming it was a weaker option with low risk of addiction. Yeah right! This became my cryptonite for nearly 2 years. I can confidently say that tramadol wd is hands down the most intense, crippling wd I’ve ever been through. In 2012 I got on suboxone to get off of the tram and didnt realize until it was too late that suboxone is just as addictive, if not more so. I weened down to 2mgs of subs over the course of 2 years and quit at 2mgs in October. The WDs lasted forever! It wasn’t as intense as the tram or Oxy’s but it wears you down just the same. In November I began taking kratom to combat PAWS and had been on it since up until 4 days ago. My kratom withdrawal was pretty rough on day 1 with all of the classic opiated wd symptoms. By day 2 I actually did feel slightly better and even had a somewhat productive day at work. To the point that I actually forgot I was even withdrawing from time to time when I was really busy. That’s when I realized that I actually can do this. With renewed confidence and a positive frame of mind day 3 came even easier. I didn’t feel great, but I didn’t feel terrible either. And today I can say that I even feel somewhat “normal”. So my point is, kratom withdrawal is only as bad as you make it. It’s certainly alot easier that classic opiates. And a positive frame of mind is key to quitting. Had I known it was this easy I would’ve quit opiates long ago. I know some people have a tough time on it, but if you’re struggling with painkillers I’d suggest giving kratom a try. It might just be a life saver.

4:05 am March 11th, 2015

Today was day 14 and I have to say my will is being weakened. I have had a couple long stressful days at work and was really considering going out and buying a case of beer. Deep down I know that this will not help the situation but I am looking for relief and trying to stay away from kratom, so my addictive mind tries to convince me to drink. I have resisted so far and just trying to make it until bedtime. Sometimes I feel like my problems with addiction is equivalent to a damn with leaks. Every time I work to fill a leak in one area it sprays out in another. Today I have just felt physically and mentally beat down. I know that I just need to weather this storm and that sunny days will come. In my past experience paws can be a roller coaster ride. One day you feel like you are making progress and the next day you feel like the world is caving in around you. life can get real discouraging sometimes. But as Rocky says Life will beat you to your knees and keep you there if you let it. Sometimes I think using drugs to get through hard times is you allowing life to keep you down.

3:47 pm March 11th, 2015

My 43 friend’s whole life revolves around green Malay Kratom tea.That is all she thinks of. She worries about getting too much or getting too little or will she have enough. What a wasted life.

5:01 pm March 11th, 2015

Good post JB. I read your earlier post as well and can relate. I started drinking in high school and through my mid 20’s alcohol was my go to. I was the guy that could out drink everybody. People just expected me to drink. When I found opiates I traded in alcohol for pills. I could hide the fact that I was taking something and function at a high level every day. People who knew me were shocked that I quit drinking and “got it together”. If only they knew. I’ve pretty much been on opiates since 2006 with a few stints of sobriety. In 2008 I quit everything for over 2 years. And you’re right about 90 days. I remember when I did finally stick to my guns it was almost exactly the 90 day mark that I realized I felt great. And for those 2 years I felt strong, healthy and energetic. I still kick myself for relapsing. Anyway, I did it once before and the fact that eventually I did feel good, if not great is my motivation. If you can make it to the 90 day mark, you will see how worth it it really is. Good luck to you my friend. I wish you the best.

5:53 pm March 15th, 2015

Day 18 since quitting. Thanks RJ for the encouragement. It helps to know that there are other people out there that are fighting with the same demons. I think knowing that I am not alone can be a huge part of recovery. Yesterday was Saturday and I pretty much laid around the house all day and feel like a sloth. I am planning on going to the gym and today and giving myself a kickstart and then getting some stuff done around the house. For me exercise is the biggest key to recovery without it I don’t think I could continue to stay sober. For me exercise clears all the craps out of my mind and can lift me out of a funk.

5:31 am March 21st, 2015

Day 24 since last use
i have been feeling down on myself the last couple days. Discouraged with work and life. Been doing a lot of reflecting on my life lately and focusing on all the negative things in my life past and present. In the beginning Kratom lifted me out of that mental ghetto that I am stuck in now and helped me to look at things from a more positive perspective. My worries, self doubts, fears all seemed to melt away as all the positive things in my life became very clear. This is why opiates are such an addictive drug after using for so many years your whole life becomes consumed with it. I read a quote that said an addiction is an increasing desire for something that gives less and less satisfaction. That is exactly my relationship with kratom. I was pursuing something that was doing way more harm then good and I new it was time to quit. Since quitting I have had some ok days and some bad. But I am holding on to the fact that I am still on the wagon still fighting for that 90 days and fighting for good times ahead

12:37 am March 24th, 2015

Every since I hit 30 I’ve been going through a sort of midlife crisis. I’ve begun drinking every night again and my marijuana dependence has flared up once again. I managed to downgrade my kratom usage to every other day, but now I’m getting that feeling I used to get when I first started… The one that feels like I took a handful of opiates. I feel like I’m spiraling downward again, and I’m afraid rock bottom is rushing up to say, “Hello, old friend.” Just looking for a little bit of encouragement, I suppose.

1:33 am March 24th, 2015

Justin try taking 10melatonin for sleep..wheni was going through suboxone w/d it helped with sleep instead of a sleeping pill from doc..and also nerrotten..not shure if that’s the right spelling or not but that is a anti inflamotory,also use for many other things,my doc gave it to me for the restless legs..pops,coffee and other caff sOPAMINEtay away from that makes your legs more restless and of course sleep…l-ttyrosine and b6 with b12 will help with your energy and L-TYROSINE WILL HELP YOUR NEUROTRANSMITTERS IT GIVES YO A BOOST OF DOPAMINE,,,THATS WHAT YOUR MIND PRODUCES TO MAKE YOU HAPPY,WILL HLP WTH THE DEPRESSION

12:17 pm March 31st, 2015

Been using Kratom for almost a year now and it helped me quit drinking and I can’t thank the stuff enough for it. But now I want to stop taking my 6 twice a day dose of kratom I’m going to use etizolam of and on for the first week to help with withdrawal. Please wish me luck.

6:05 pm March 31st, 2015

I am thinking about quitting I use every 5 hours , I used kratom to come off poppies and it worked. 3 yrs later I’m trying to stop kratom. I recently was diagnosed with low iron levels so I have been taking iron supplements. I feel as though the iron may be making me go through withdrawls? Has anyone herd of this? It’s the only thing I could think of that has changed. Please if anyone has been through this or something similar please advise. I am having all withdrawl symtoms except the stomach issues . It could be something non- related to kratom but I feel as if I am Goin through mild withdrawls that haven’t gone away.

7:29 pm April 8th, 2015

Have yet to take the plunge. plan to taper. Just found this thread…how are you all doing now? This plant is a blessing and yet a curse. I fear I will not ever be myself again and the anxiety tact on to that is cumbersome. Don’t want to stop something that has enhanced me so, and therefore being a nice part of my productivity for years now. Although I have come to see the changes in efficacy and shorten duration of desirable effects, which causes desire for a re up however my mind thinks that will work is beyond me as I get naseus each time. It doesn’t work any more, and as one said earlier, I am not fond of slavery to a plant 😉

4:55 am April 9th, 2015

I am using kratom to w/d off of pain pills. I would like you to answer a .? For me please cuz I dont know what to do. I take 2 500mg a day 3times a day cuz it only last 3 hrs. Am I going to have WD with only being on it for a month for my WD. Please reply I am very scared
Thank you

11:00 pm April 9th, 2015

Mary, can you specify how much you are taking? It says 2 500mgs, do you mean 2 5gs 3x? I’ve never heard of kratom used in terms of mgs. How you will feel will greatly depend on how much you are taking as well as how long you were using pills before switching to kratom. Although the high from kratom wears off after 3 hours, the effects last 6-8 hours. Try spacing out your doses as far as possible. You don’t want to redose as soon as the buzz wears off. Just take enough to stave off wds. This will help you taper and will help a lot in the long run. I can say from my experiences, kratom wds are much milder and more tolerable than opiate wds. I mainly have physiological cravings etc. but physical wds for me don’t even compare to pills. I’ve been doing kratom for 3 months now to get off of suboxone and have quit for several days a time on several occasions and aside from feeling a bit lethargic and having cravings it hasn’t been too bad.

8:28 am April 12th, 2015

I would say no. I don’t think you should be scared at all. I think way to go getting off ther pills dear.

7:51 am April 14th, 2015

I’ve been off Kratom for about two weeks. The first couple of days was not fun. The next couple of days I felt good and somewhat normal. After that I wake up angry every morning. It does help that I work fairly long hours, and that keeps me busy. My biggest fear is that about the same time every day, I get this dull feeling in my head combined with a headache. Over-the-counter ‘ s help with that. But I almost feel a bit high and sensitive to light, as when I used to take Kratom. Has anybody experienced this? I had originally used vicodin and norco for many years. I sought treatment in an outpatient program, and asked for Suboxone. I was on that for about 6 months, and tapered off. I couldn’t stand the withdrawal from that, and some website recommended Kratom as an option. Which brings us to the now. I hope I haven’t permanently altered my brains chemistry. Does that dull headed feeling go away?

7:39 pm April 14th, 2015

I have been on kratom for approximately 10 months and have decided I want to quit. I was at 20 gms/day and am down to 12 gms/day. I would like to get down to 8 gms/day by the end of next week before I jump off I have obtained ativan to sleep for a few days. Will ativan ease my wd symptoms?

11:40 pm April 14th, 2015

Hello Austin, how long we’re you on Kratom? And how much were you taking before you quit? This really makes a difference in how long wds last. But to vaguely answer your question, from my experience it takes any where from 30-90 days after the acute physical wd symptoms have subsided to be completely back to “normal” after long term opiate or kratom use. I’d say if your 2 weeks clean and functioning normally that’s a very good sign. Few people even make it to that point. And congrats on getting off of suboxone. That’s the same reason that I started taking kratom. I was on subs for 2 years and the wd was terrible and lasted FOREVER! It was weeks before I could even eat a full meal or sleep through the night. Kratom wd is much milder and more tolerable that subs or traditional opiates when it comes to withdrawing. Hang in there. You should see a steady improvement of all symptoms as time goes on. It takes time to heal from the damage, which isn’t permanent, but the suboxone will do a number on you physically and mentally. My guess is any of the symptoms that you’re feeling is more than likely from the suboxone and not the kratom.

12:07 am April 15th, 2015

I have been on kratum 3weeks now. Taking it 3 times a day. It is in capsule form. White capsules. I buy it at a mini mart in sparks Nv. I do know that it is not FDA approved in the state of Nv and other states. Having said this if I quite now do you think I will experience w/d’s. After reading your post I am now scared.
Please please please reply ASP!!

12:35 am April 15th, 2015

I am not entirely sure about what I am hearing in the comments. Really this is a rather mild detox and I have been through a few. Something that I find makes the detox easier is if you can get ahold of either Tramadol or Gabapentin. Both of which are phenomenally easy to kick. The Tramadol works better since you can dose down easily (1 tablet first, then 1/2, 1/4 and so on in daily succession). It is just keeping control of your Dopamine levels. Gabapentin also works at higher doses and is nothing to give up. No withdrawal.

2:14 pm April 15th, 2015

Neil — it affects everyone differently, just like any other substance.

don't matter
4:03 pm April 15th, 2015

I’ve wrote on here before in the past. I successfully quit Kratom twice. I’m coming to terms that it’s bullshit though. First time I quit was nine days of horrible physical withdraw, then 11days of God awful anxiety that put me in the hospital for blood pressures in the two hundreds, then it slowly leaves traces after the waves but eventually goes away. Let’s get one thing straight, Kratom is addicting as Fuck! Anyone who feels otherwise you got aloooong road ahead of you, poor smuck. I was clean for a few months and started back up. Why’d I do that? Cause life just seemed like such bullshit. Either Kratom does perminent damage, or some people it just doesn’t matter there better on dope. Here I sit clean for months again for the second time and life just seems bleh. Nothing exciting, never wanna do shit. Just work and exercise, and it’s just not the same as it was before… Look at it from my point of view, would you rather take antidepressants, a horribly addicting medication that makes you feel like a weirdo, or take a horriblely addicting substance that makes you feel great? When veiwed like that it makes sense right? Unless it’s like a otc, or antibiotic, just go ahead and assume it’s addicting, your probably right. Tramadol just went from anti-inflammatory to narcotic lol. Good job guys, way to Fuck up and get a bunch of poor saps addicted to drugs, meanwhile your the same assholes that look at em with disgust. Y’all are the ones that make me sick, shit heads… Anyway I’ll give it another month or two. If nothing changes in mood I’ll go to a doctor and say wanna put me on subs now or you want me to go party my as off first…
….. I’ve made it out guys, it’s tough, I know, but looking for some answers here. How long before shit COMPLETELY goes back to normal? It’s been months already. Should I live life a miserable sober bum, or a happy go lucky strip eater? Awaiting feedback people, thanks

4:30 pm April 15th, 2015

Neil, how long have you taken any of these things? I can say without a doubt that of all the opiates that I’ve detoxed from, tramadol is by far the most intense. You get wd from opiates and antidepressants at the same time. I wouldn’t suggest to anybody to switch from kratom to tramadol.

Mary mason
5:39 am April 19th, 2015

RJ I am so with you. You are so right about tramadol. That stuff is horrible. Someone told me to take that crap to. Cuz at one time I was on norco and was told to take tram. OMG!
I wanted to die. I later found out I was allergic to it. My face broke out in a red rash including my body. I looked like a. Red lobster and couldnt breath. Scared the hell out of me.
Finally ended up at a detox doc. He put me on suboxon and monitored me very closely. Then he started whining me off that and he was very stricken about what he wanted me to do
With the subox. And then I was off everything without any wds.. This doc was so caring and he helped me off the drugs with no wds. So then like a fool I heard about this crap kratum that wasn’t
Addicting. That it was just a tea and acted like caffine so I decided to try it, BIG MISTAKE. THAT CRAO DOES HAVE OPIATES IN IT. So now I have to start all over again with mild wds.
Don’t ever let anyone tell you that kratum is safe or that tramadol is easy to kick. So now I am to embarrass
To go back to my doc. I live in sparks Nv and if anyone wants to go see that doc let me know. Leave ur number and I will contact you. But I have to tell you he is STRICKED. And he drug tests you while you are going to him. If he finds any other drug in you he will not see you anymore.

not that bad
7:51 pm April 21st, 2015

I quit cold turkey after a 15 gram/day Maeng Da habit for a few months. I FELT FINE. Maybe a runny nose, if anything.

1:52 am April 22nd, 2015

I wrote earlier about my wd’s, but very little. My job is hard on the body so I suffer from the norm in that sort being muscle ache, joint ache, and I also have ibs which is the reason I started taking Kratom. Now I think not only is it costly, but I don’t like anything that’s controlling me. I want to stop taking it. I took painkillers in the past, and actually used Kratom to help with wd’s, but now ill be stopping Kratom with no crutch, and I know anything can become addictive. I was wondering if kava could help with Kratom wd’s and maybe a immodium, and Aleve. Could that work?

1:55 am April 22nd, 2015

Would anything OTC like immodium, Aleve, or even another herb like Kava help?

4:58 am April 26th, 2015

Hi I’ve been taking Kratom for 3 months, to begin with I was taking about 1 heaped teaspoon once a day every other day for about 4 weeks, then once a day every day up until 2 weeks ago where I’ve been taking roughly a 1/3 teaspoon 3 times a day, its been 24 hours since my last dose, and have been slightly irritable and tired. I’m worried that my symptoms will get severely worse, and would it be an idea to taper off it more?

1:39 pm April 26th, 2015

First I’d like to say to people who are saying one drug is easier to get off than another is that is your experience and it probably won’t be someone else’s. Everyone body make up is different and will react a bit differently to adding a drug or taking one away. So if you had a easy time getting off kratom thank your lucky stars but don’t assume it’s the same for everyone.

I started out with a ruptured disk in my back. From work, lifting heavy patients. Even with good body mechanics a 110lb girl lifting a 500lb guy is no match even with help. So I started on pain pills and even though I needed them for a time I enjoyed them and when I should have been done kept taking them. That happened in 2006 and I’d been off them for a long time when my friend gave me a pain pill and I remembered how much I loved them. I got readdicted even though I knew withdrawal would be hell. This only lasted maybe six months and I started looking for an easier way to come off of them. And I found kratom. I have tried to wean off the kratom and it didn’t work well for me. I’m starting day five cold turkey. Things that really help are warm baths, sun light, and walking around if you can for the leg cramps. You can order clonidine online but being a nurse I should say go to a doctor and get it. Don’t take more than 0.1mg two times a day. Don’t think if one made me feel better two will make me feel great like all of us addicts do:-) because you’ll end up passing out. I also had a friend prescrb me some ambien but I have a habit of taking more than one after I take the first one and the first night I hid it from myself so I wouldn’t do that. I’m really good at playing hide and seek with myself I guess. I also had 30 Xanax and 30 phenergan in that bottle. But back to the point something to help you sleep would be good, it would be much better to go the OTC route. I was just going to toss what I had left at day 14 but sleeping pills aren’t my thing so that would have been easy.

If you only hear one thing I’ve written make it get some clonidine. It takes withdrawals symptoms away for me at about 75%. I’ve head other people say 90%. It’s not a pain pill but take it for longer than two weeks and you can have some side effects when quitting like rebound hypertension, sweating and a few others. It doesn’t make you high all it does it mask the withdrawals so I’m not sure why anyone would want to keep taking it.

Good luck to everyone, hopefully in a few months this will be all behind us and we will feel great.

2:43 pm April 26th, 2015

A few more things after reading some comments. If someone says kratom isn’t addictive one of two things they sale it and are lying to you or they haven’t been on it long enough. And long enough might be one month for one person and a year for someone else so don’t think just because this one person says they used for nine months and had no problem quitting that will be you as well. Also if you switched to kratom from another addictive substance you really just substituted one for another. I did that and I think it would have been better just to do it once and be done but I was on hydros and if you’re on something stronger it would probably be better to tapper down to kratom before you jump off. Be careful taking advice as well. There are some really good ideas on here but some poor ones as well. Look into them and don’t just take what one person said as gospel. Also if you’re going to come on here and make fun of people, why bother? Just move along if you think this is stupid. There is no reason to be cruel. Remember what your mommy told you if you can’t say anything nice don’t say anything at all.

5:14 pm April 27th, 2015

I am on day 5 of ct from a 10 gm/day habit. I am glad to say many of the acute physical symptoms have subsided. I am back at work but the fatigue and mild depression still lingers. Probably the biggest obstacle for me will be the evenings. The boredom and mild depression, just watching the clock tick away drives me crazy. I don’t know how long these symptoms will last before I finally feel normal

2:03 pm April 29th, 2015

So I’ve been taking kratom for about 3 years now every day. I started just twice a day and within the last year I take it every 3-4 hours about 8 grams per dose. I haven’t tried to quit before but I have ran out for about 24 hours and it was awful. So I found out last night I was pregnant and as there are no studies on the safety of taking it while pregnant I won’t risk it and need to quit now. I have withdrawn from opiates (why I started kratom in the first place) and I know that was hell for me. Physically. Anyways I obviously haven’t been to a doctor but is there anything I could do to help this withdrawal process. I’ve read that withdrawal can cause miscarriages and I really don’t want that. I won’t be able to get to a doctor for a few weeks as I need to get insurance but I need/want to stop asap. I know when I would run out id just smoke a little bud and try to sleep it off but what could I do now?

4:45 pm April 29th, 2015

Hello, I am a recovering addict who struggled with pain killers for years, and eventually managed to get clean by going to a 3 month inpatient facility. I was happy to have my life back and genuinely enjoyed being clean again. However, after visiting the new kava bar they opened in my town (I have done kava kava on a few occasions, and stopped by to check out the traditional way of consuming it) I was introduced to kratom. At first it seemed like there was no downside, the internet assured me that it was not a true opiate and that it was relatively harmless, that was about a year and a half ago. My use has steadily increased from 3 grams every morning to over 10 grams, and I will often continue to dose through the day for a total intake sometimes approaching 20 grams although sometimes the morning dose is enough to get me through without a second thought. There have been a few times when I will run out and have to wait until the following evening to get some more, since they don’t open until around 5 most days. Trying to get through work without it is difficult to say the least, but not impossible. Just walking around, especially in the morning, takes an appreciable amount of effort and there is a noticeable amount of muscle stiffness and soreness and there is definitely some restlessness as well as anxiety, trying to sleep without it is difficult to say the least. I would rather deal with nausea rather than anxiety, for me anxiety is the worst possible side effect and the dread that it creates seems to lead to a vicious feedback loop, just knowing it is on the way is enough to distract me from doing anything productive. Now I am on probation for pot, and I just found out that the intensive outpatient program that they have referred me to as part of said probation has the OPTION to test for kratom, though as near as I can tell they don’t test for it regularly. Regardless, I have had an impending sense of dread for some time now about my slowly but steadily escalating habit, and there is no doubt in my mind that I am addicted. It gives me some relief to learn that the withdrawal is less severe than other drugs, but I am now convinced that this is not the harmless herbal supplement that they originally billed it as, and I’m sure that it will be outlawed as soon as it becomes more mainstream. I’m trying to take this opportunity to quit, although I’m still tapering off my use so as to minimize the inevitable withdrawal, I’m currently back down to 7 grams once a day and I plan on cutting that amount to less than 3 grams (what I originally started on) before ceasing altogether, but I just hope that they don’t decide to do a test for kratom before I get to that point. I am being tested 3 times a week, and the program calls for total abstinence, even alcohol despite being told by my probation officer that I am allowed to drink. That said, I don’t have the luxury of being able to self-medicate with pot and other substances, which is a good thing because I tend to jump from one thing to another when I do quit something. I’m also going to 12 step meetings, and have done so in the past to great benefit. I have noticed a certain amount of mental fog and forgetfulness, , even more so than what you would normally expect from opiates which bothers me greatly, and it seems to do the same thing to the other people that I know that use kratom. I’m feeling more optimistic after reading some of these other stories, I will post more after I stop completely.

Bottom line to anyone who just started, or is thinking about it and just doing the research, is that this is not something to be taken lightly. It can be of benefit to some if you are looking something to step down to in order to get off of other, stronger opiates, and some clinics use it as such to great success (it is a much safer and preferable alternative to, say, methadone or suboxone) , but it is not the harmless, non-addictive plant that some try to make it out to be. The worst disinformation comes from the sites that are also trying to sell it to you, so that should tell you a lot right there. Be careful, and definitely don’t use it every day. If you try it, and want more, then you are already addicted whether you realize it or not.

6:10 pm April 29th, 2015

Courtney, I feel for you. You are taking quite a dose in a 24 hr period and so the first few days will be extremely uncomfortable as everyone here can attest to. I have tried the various remedies suggested on this and other websites (, which use a combination of precursor amino acids (glutamine, tyrosine, dl phenylalanine, 5HTP along with other drugs such as loperimide) which certainly help with the severity of the symptoms although in my case they did not eliminate them. I would suggest trying such an approach and just waiting it out. I did find that the loperimide helped with the aches during the day. I started with about 24 mg/day and once the symptoms subsided began tapering down. I am on day seven and for me the greatest difficulty is the insomnia. Even with 1 mg ativan sleeping has not been great but everyone is dfiferent. Anyways good luck and remember the pain is only temporary

7:29 am April 30th, 2015

I used Kratom everyday for 5 years. I stopped and had all the main symptoms of withdrawal with severe discomfort and severe muscle tension. I also started to hear and see things distortedly or see flashes utbof the side of my vision. I could not sleep, and when I tried I would get shooting electricity through my body which made my muscles twitch. My nose and eyes watered, my ears would pop, and I was cold. My jaw was clenched, and I had bad anxiety and some depression. I also had no appetite and had tightness in my chest. So I decided to ween myself down for another week or so while I have my kids, so I can function and then I am going to start really tapering again by that Monday and after a few days completely quit taking it with the help of some ativan, muscle relaxers, and sleeping pills taken correctly. I used to drink 20-35 grams a day now I am at 5-14 g a day. I will be stabilizing myself for another week, and then I am stopping completely with two weeks to recover and with the right mindset and help from certain medications and Jesus.

3:27 am May 5th, 2015

I am currently on day three of quitting Kratom. I used between 3 and 10 g a day for about five weeks. I’m still feeling a bit hot and cold flashes and some gastrointestinal issues. Also I am experiencing some slight depression and despondency. However, as someone who was once been addicted to much more potent opiates and gone through withdrawals I must say that it is quite mild. I feel almost normal again. I’m not sure if I will continue to use kratom in the future. It such a wonderful feeling to be Under the influence of kratom. I feel warm and outgoing and social and loving. If it weren’t addictive I would take it every day for the rest of my life. I think there are other things I can do to make myself feel the way I felt on Tom, So I’m going to leave it alone and avoid becoming a slave to it. It seems it getting off kratom is just a time thing.

6:50 pm May 5th, 2015

This message is for Jared. Are you crazy Jared. We’ll I have news for you buddy. It takes a hell of a lot longer then a week or two to wd. I was on it for just 2weeks and I am still aching. The pharmistist. Told me at least 3month cus your recepters in your brain are effected . You flu like symtons will com in waves. Do you want to really depend on a pill to make you happy?

9:47 pm May 5th, 2015

Come on LC you can do this. I am in week 6 now and have about another 6 wks to go. If you go back you will be so disappointed in yourself. Come on buddy lets do this together!!!!!!

5:17 pm May 6th, 2015

I am now on day five. Most of the physical symptoms of withdrawal have abated. Now the main symptom I am left with is anxiety. I’ll be damned if the symptoms last for three months. Quit much stronger opiates in this before and the worst of it usually lasts around five days, With the other milder more psychological symptoms lasting for around two weeks. This is all over the first time I’ve ever quite kratom. I’m not sure what to expect other than the little gained from cleaning other experiences on here

3:07 pm May 7th, 2015

what about people that are chronic ? That will be givin medications for the duration? That would be me , so for me I would much rather drink a little tea three times a day then take a large amount of chemicals that have never done me justice . I have checked into 8 rehabilitation centers to get to the core of “me”. The last one I stayed in there for 8 months , left with more medications then I went in with. I have been using kratom safely and responsibly now for 5 years . I take 2 grams of kratom from a reputable source 3 times a day and for the very first time in my life I am stable , rational and pretty secure. Anything can be abused. This is just for me. I wish you all luck on your journey and hope it all works out for you. Cheers ..:)

12:37 am May 9th, 2015

Quit 2 weeks ago 1.5 yr 15 g/ day meng da habit. Although I will admit it does have its benefits, kratom can be evil. For the first 6-9 months I thought it was a wonder drug, kept me from drinking, kept me going throughout the day, made me feel great, and made me productive. Eventually the ugly side of it showed up, I was a slave to it, vision was blurry (not to be confused with classic wobbly vision), gained a bunch of weight, drinking all the time, dehydrated, and irritable. I knew I couldn’t get off it without any help so I started taking Paxil while still taking kratom. This actually worked, in combination with smoking weed in the evening. Withdrawals were especially tough for the first week – tough to sleep, cravings, restless leg, irritibility, sadness, no motivation, aches in muscles and joints, and worried all the time. I now feel like myself again for the most part but there are a few persistent symptoms – restless leg, aches, and I am constantly exhausted. For a while , I thought I would never be able to get off of it and I am thankful I was able to kick it. If you feel stuck, have faith, there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

10:03 pm May 13th, 2015

Hey everybody. I’ve enjoyed reading your experiences. I am 67 and have had a history of addiction to pain meds and tranquilizers since I hurt my back in high school. I also had chronic anxiety and found my answer in drugs. That first dose, I was in love. It has been a constant issue in my life ever since. I just don’t like to feel bad. I read about kratom on a web site somewhere, it sounded like a wonder herb, all cozy and safe. But again, the same thing holds true that there is just no drug that works for any length of time. I’m strung out again, ashamed of it and scared to death to go through the withdrawals, even though i’ve done it many times before. I just called my psychiatrist and set up an appointment to deal with this. Believe me, the older you get, the more shaming and depressing it is see yourself as an addict that hasn’t dealt with life on life’s terms. My heart goes out to everyone who has to deal with addiction. It truly is a bitch.

2:47 am May 14th, 2015

Was up people! I hope everyone is doing well and getting through the withdrawal. It has been about two weeks since I quit, and I used for over three years everyday 20-35 grams of potent kratom. I am getting better day by day. I still feel somewhat lethargic, but whey protein with exercise helps with that. I still have restless leg syndrome at night until about 3-5 in the morning and wake up drenched in sweat with my heart beating out of my chest and feeling extreme anxiety and panic. It is a little better though. Clonidine does help with this if you take it when you go to bed. I still sometdays get cold, achy flu like symptoms, but not as much. That is nothing compared to the anxiety I have though! I even take klonopin 4 mg a day and 3 mg of Lunesta at night, and have trouble sleeping and bad anxiety, but it is getting better with Faith in Jesus. I have obsessive compulsive disorder of intrusive disturbing thought nature, but the withdrawal makes it worse. Try to be positive and get out in the sun and stay busy, because it does get better. Eat well too. Sometimes I see flashes of light and get light headed still. I take an a serotonin antidepressant which helps a little with depression, but not the lack of endorphins, which is the worst, or depleted norepinephrine, and dopamine. 5 HTP can help witj serotonin, and DL Phenylalanine will help with norepinephrine, dopamine, and a little with endorphins at 500 mg-2000mg 2-4 times a day, but can cause anxiety. I am going to get some D-Phenylalanine which does not cause anxiety, and works better and only on increasing endorphins only through blocking three enzymes that break endorphins down quickly. I threw out about $500-$1000 of kratom being I live in Indiana and do it want anyone else to become addicted! That was tough! The uncomfortableness is pretty much gone now. I have withdrawn from heroin, all kinds of pain pills, even subs and dones, and benzodiazepines, and kratom withdrawal is like withdrawaling from both and takes a long time. Kratom helped me get off heroin, but was just another addiction problem. I lost 85 lbs. and weighed 130 lbs. at 33 when I quit! I used to actually weigh 215 lbs. when I first started. I am done with kratom and sober through the Grace of God which is Christ Jesus. I pray that this helps and that everyone who is trying to quit kratom succeeds. If I can do it then you can do it especially with God’s help and the right diet, exercise, and medications. The Lord will prevail always! God bless you all!

4:36 am May 14th, 2015

I think this is the biggest load of crap I have ever read. :/ I’ve been using it for awhile, and it has completely changed my life, for the better. I recently came into some money problems and couldn’t afford to buy more, which meant stopping, cold turkey. Other than my pain coming back (I use kratom for pain control…), I feel fine. Seriously, totally fine. I’ve had a harder time trying to stop drinking soda. Seriously! I see thousands of people all the time (through fb groups) talk about kratom. I’ve never heard one person say they had wd symptoms any worse than a slight headache when stopping, no matter how long or what strains they had been taking. Millions of people are helped by this amazing herb, but that doesn’t matter. All it takes is one person to start spreading lies, and despite the thousands of people saying he’s wrong, others will believe the lies (same reason pot is illegal). It’s sad, really. 🙁

Susan Z
5:48 am May 14th, 2015

100 grams? Really? What idiot would take that much? I’ve used Kratom to get off the Vicodin, when my doctor, after giving it to me for 3 years, suddenly changed her mind.

I had no withdrawals, thanks to the Kratom. I used it for that, and occasionally for my depression.

A normal dose is 2-6 grams. If you’re taking more than that, I’m surprised you haven’t thrown up your guts by now. WIth Kratom, less is more. A 4 gram dose may give you energy, but an 8 gram dose will sedate you – fine, if that’s what you’re looking for.

There are few things in this life that are not addictive, at least psychologically. One of the most addictive substances known to man is sugar, yet no one is screaming, “Outlaw sugar!”

Kratom is related to coffee, and is no more addictive than coffee. Some people have terrible withdrawals from coffee. Yet there is a Starbucks on every corner.

9:16 am May 14th, 2015

I have stopped taking Kratom for days at a time after taking it 3-4x a day for over 6mons straight and have had no withdrawal symptoms other than the chronic pain returning that I was taking Kratom for to begin with. There are no cures for my chronic diseases,Kratom is just the safer pain reliever out there. I do know a lot of people who take Kratom for depression and other psychological issues and I still must stand by Kratom as being the safest alternative to treatment therapy that is available to patients.Many of the pharmaceutical drugs avail. due more harm physically while you are taking them. So patient beware, and judge for yourselves the pros and cons of these therapies. No one has killed themselves ,or had suicidal idealizations while taking Kratom. .The same can not be said for other drugs. As patients we are entitled to be informed of the choices in the care of our illnesses. Thank You!

9:00 pm May 14th, 2015

Ginger, will all do respect, you’re wrong. People who are commenting on this page aren’t trying to condemn kratom because we’re being paid off by the govt. Like many other have stated, everybody reacts differently to any and all drugs. I never had a problem using cocaine, ecstasy, shrooms or pain pills in moderation. Alcohol, on the other hand, I couldn’t control and was killing me. Kratom, like many others have stated, was also a life saving drug I thought at the time. It took away my alcohol cravings and I was feeling better than I ever have in my life. I got off all of my pharma meds as well and never looked back. Then after about 6 months of taking about 10-15 mg twice a day, I decided I wanted to quit for awhile. I was starting to have trouble sleeping and wasn’t feeling as good I was before. After about 36 hours of cold turkey, I started having panic attacks, sweats, nausea, depression, anxiety and couldn’t sleep a wink. I wasn’t able to focus on my job at work and I have a pretty stressful gig that i have to be on top of my game at all times. So now here I am about a year later and I still haven’t been able to kick the habit. I’ve been trying the taper method like others here have suggested and I’m slowly working my way down. I’m hoping to all hell that this works because if I can’t quit this habit I’m in big trouble. Kudos to you if you can take it for months on end and can quit cold turkey without any negative effects. I assure you myself and all of the other people on this thread aren’t getting paid a dime by big pharma to write these comments. Do I think kratom should be illegal? No, I do not. Because I think it is a much better and afer alternative than pain pills, opiates and big pharma meds…no question. I do think though as it becomes more and more popular as it is, you are going to see more and more people winding up in emergency rooms, doctors offices and rehab clinics. That’s when the government is going to look more into it. It’s already been gaining attention in many other states and already illegal in some. Thanks for sharing your opinion but please respect others who are seriously suffering from this addiction, it’s no joke.

6:58 pm May 16th, 2015

The human body is so complex that there will be different reactions to anybody’s stopping kratom. Nobody contributing to this site just decided to badmouth this stuff for no reason. That should be obvious. All I’m saying that for me, I have an addictive personality and addictive brain chemistry and it’s gotten me in trouble every time I thought I found something that causes euphoria and is supposedly problem free. I hope that kratom is never controlled in that it is a great alternative to opioids and benzos and a great support for withdrawing from these drugs. I only wrote in to express my problem and perhaps get some support. I have no desire to see kratom banned or controlled and doing so will only create more problems and more money for big pharma.

5:50 am May 20th, 2015

Kratom was definitely a monkey on my back. Heavy user (30-40g) up to 4-5 x a day at its worse for about 8 months. So bad I redose at night so I could prevent WD. I spent between May 10th through may 17th going cold turkey (was out of country on vacation and could not take any with through customs and didn’t care to find out if I would get arrested or not). It was the worst experience ever, especially the pains and many sleepless nights. whole week saw about 60 m sleep; it was that bad. I was hallucinating open eyes near the end of week how tired I got. Got through the week with help of 500 mg phenibut hcl (read this must be tapered if used more than a couple days to prevent seizure) and shower after shower. Still, worst ever. I wish I have never heard of the stuff. Got it as a natural remedy for back pain at first until I started enjoying it too much. Gave me a lot of confidence. Thank god my wife supports me after all I did and the money I wasted. I kept it from her that entire time. So when I got back I thought ok now I can be responsible and take the same doses (5g) a few times a day. I did that yesterday and today. Why??? So my question to all: if I washed out last week and then did about 15 g yesterday (over 3 5g sessions) and 15 g today (sameof green Malay and indo, can I just quit immediately and not have to go through wds again? I have to work now that I am back from vacation and it would be not a good week if I have a repeat of last week. Needlesstosay, I am done with Kratom. I threw all my supply out (about 500 dollars worth) and it is in the garbage. I hate what has happened that much. No more! I am not going to put my marriage, my job or my life at risk. I care about them all too much.

5:19 pm May 21st, 2015

I realize this is an old post. I’ve only been using Kratom for a week and a half. I started it to help myself through tramadol w/d’s. I can tell I’m developing a tolerance, so I’m going to stop. I’m glad I came across this site.

2:33 am May 22nd, 2015

Have you ever heard of benzodiazapine withdrawal? It is worse that heroin withdrawal, so you suggest to take diazapam which is a benzodiazapine???? Please do research on benzo withdrawal before you suggest it to help with this type of withdrawal because you are just telling people to jump from one ht pan into another.

11:11 am May 22nd, 2015

Hi Kay. Yes, we know all about benzodiazepine withdrawal. And, benzo drugs are not risky and harmful if taken for a short period of time. If a doctor finds it is necessary to prescribe diazepam for a week or two to help a patient through withdrawal. Any long-term use of benzos can result in forming dependence and addiction, which is why we state they should never be used longer than 1-3 weeks.

3:11 pm May 23rd, 2015

This is just an update after quiting Keaton (again) 3 days ago. WD symptoms are no where as bad this time after one week solid use of plain leaf, about 5-7 grams a dose, 3-5 x a day. As stated above, I washed out from an 8 month habit of heavy plain leaf Kratom use 2 weeks ago, while on vacation out of the country. That initial set of Wd were really horrible: insomnia every night, rls for 3 nights, general physical crappiness for 5 days. Mental crappiness for 7-9 days. Hot showers, phenibut and minor alcohol use helped during the washout (be extremely careful of not mixing phenibut with alcohol or CNS will becomes too depressed leading to respiratory depression) For the life of me, I still do not know why I returned to it after that washout, even if for only 5 days. Kratom seemed to have made me a whole person: no depression, no anxiety, great family life, very productive and confident at work. I almost compare it to that drug in the movie limitless. I liked who I was when on Kratom. However, I did not like the control Kratom had on me and how I had to be ultra secretive about it. I am going to get some professional therapy to determine why I need a substance to feel whole. It is something that has dogged me most of my life. Any insights to this need to take drugs to be successful topic is appreciated. I tried ssris in the past, but they didn’t seem to work and only flattened me out. I want to feel good about life on a daily basis.

6:55 pm May 26th, 2015

Day 6 without Kratom and the physical symptoms are over albeit insomnia. However, the anxiety and just feeling unmotivated is really getting to me. It is hard to be the highly productive person I was when using Kratom at work. I knew I cannot go back to it because i have an addictive personality. I have been reading over and over again that the mental aspects of Kratom recovery can take 4-6 months. This is going to be hard. One day at a time. Trying to do small things to make the days more interesting like intense exercise in the afternoon, a good movie, reading, etc. however, the days drag on. Any suggestions would be helpful. This anxiety and down feeling is horrible. I liked who I was and the life I was living on Kratom.

1:49 pm May 27th, 2015

i have been using this stuff rather heavily for the past 8-9 mos. i stopped 24hrs ago because i ran out. sadly, i have some in the mail to me now. but im scared to go through what i went through last night again. im scared to tell my wife. i never knew this stuff would become so addictive. i keep hoping in the back of my mind that the gov’t makes this stuff illegal. i didnt sleep at all last night. i feel so stupid not knowing how im going to make it through the day.

1:24 am June 16th, 2015

I quit 16 days ago. First week totally disabled. Second week regained energy a little, doc prescribed gabapentin/neurontin which is a GOD SEND GOD SEND!!! HOWEVER!!!! The persistence I have of NO MOTIVATION is killing me. It is the #1 problem. People complain about RLS and No sleep. Get some sleep meds and some RLS meds. That is a problem with a solution. BUT THERE IS NO SOLUTION FOR THE NO MOTIVATION/CHRONIC FATIGUE.
Does anyone here have any experience with working out during the first month of withdrawals?? Will
I regain my energy if I work out at the gym more? Im taking clonidine and gabapentin. They are THE SOLUTION!!!! However, there is NO MEDICINE for lethargy. Please. Any experience would help. Im willing to work out hard. But only if it will help regain my energy.
Thank you.
Good Job everybody. I took Maeng Da to the LIMIT’!!! And eventually my body began to reject it. IT made me sick. I was pouring it into my juice in such large amounts that it would scare anybody. ounces

6:06 pm June 25th, 2015

What helped me alot too was going for long walks too( like a 4 hour walk) and remembering that…. yes our daily lives do seem to go alot better if we have a hand full of percocets or a bunch of morphine or kratom. But it is all just opiates. I am a profesional welder and the job is pysically very demanding. with kratom I could work 14 hour days and feel great but after about 2 years the kratom lots all of its affects and actually started affecting my liver. But i agree with that other guy . INITIALLY it was like that drug LIMITLESS, but that didnt last long. you just wish that feeling from your first dose would just last forever, but it wont and you will actually feel really amazing all the time if you dont consume any drugs especially opiates, Go sky diving, it REALLY helps, with the adrenaline of the jump you just forget about the addiction.
Its soo much healthier in soo many ways to be addicted to adrenaline than Opium
( Iam sorry if it makes me feel like i just ate an Oxy 40 than iam calling it opium)

7:14 pm June 25th, 2015

I’m so glad I found this blog. I’ve felt so alone in my dependence on kratom for a long time now. I’ve got friends who’ve used it some but I was always envious that they didn’t NEED it like I do. I think alot of my dependence has to do with depression and motivational problems. When I take kratom I feel like I can do anything! But then I realize that this plant isn’t going to help me achieve anything. All I’m doing is being its servant. The one good thing I can say about kratom is that it helped me stop drinking. I am an alcoholic but have been sober for nearly a year. I worry that if I stop using kratom I’ll start to want the alcohol again, even though I have no desire for it now. I’ve stopped using a few times, usually for only a few days, but once for about a month. I’ve been taking kratom off and on for about a year and a half now, about six spoonfuls a day. I’m ready to be shed of it for good, and reading others testimonials on here have given me a lot of hope. I congratulate everyone who’s been able to kick the habit. Wish me luck in my own struggle, and God bless!

11:19 pm June 25th, 2015

Hi Scott I believe the best way to recover from withdraw fatigue is to eat healthy. Stay well away from fast food, caffeine and mood altering chemicals. You will recover just give it time. I found that the fatigue lasts half the total time you were on the drug if you were using every day. But then again my withdraw experience is with Buprenorphine which in my opinion is way more addictive than kratom.

I think working out would be a really good idea because your fighting the fatigue. The worst thing you can do is give in to it and just stay in bed, you will find that your anxiety level will go through the roof if you do.

10:39 pm June 26th, 2015

Hi, I used Kratom to get off a vicodin addiction of over fifteen years. It really worked well as I do not believe I would have been successful if not for the kratom. However now I am struggling with stopping the kratom. I took it for about 4 months and this last Monday I decided it had served its purpose and it was time to stop. I knew it would probably be a little rough but here I am 4 days later and it is still rougher than I expected. I absolutely cannot sleep or sit still for any length of time. My whole body feels like it has electric currents running through it. Can’t eat much, just feel awful. I almost feel as bad as I did when I first stopped the opiates. Please tell me that the kratom didn’t just stop the opiate w/d only to have it return full force once I stopped the kratom. I can not go for help to my MD because she still thinks I should have stayed on my painmeds and does not support my decision to go off them. I never told her about the kratom. I did do research and made sure I tapered down toward the end but I know I probably didn’t taper enough. I just wanted to be done. My last dose of kratom was monday night at 10:00pm and it is now friday afternoon. Should I just stick it out? Will it start to improve soon? Or should I go back on it and taper farther down? I don’t know what to do but I can’t take this much longer. Please help. Patty

4:33 pm June 27th, 2015

Just wanted to provide an update. Perhaps it will give others hope that are in WD or wanting to quit Kratom. It has been over a month and a 1/2 since quitting Kratom. And I feel great.

The first week after quoting Kratom was a struggle with the physical WD symptoms. RLS, no sleep, sweats; I went through it all and it was hard.

The 1st month was a struggle from the psychological PAW symptoms. The primary issue I had to overcome was extreme lack of motivation about anything.

After one month, I felt recovered at about 80% my pre-Kratom self. Since post 1 month, I rarely think about Kratom any longer. However, I notice when I do have a fleeting thought, it is usually related to feeling bored or feeling I engaged. The thought is really fleeting as it is gone immediately and rarely happens any longer.

To avoid falling back into substance addiction behavior, I keep myself busy with my work and also daily exercise (been working through t25 program in late afternoon and also run 3-5 miles daily in the morning). I do take breaks from exercise 1-2 days a week to not physically overwork my body. I have plenty of experience from being able to exercise intensely from years of cross fit, p90x, mark Lauren workout programs (look them up – excellent way to get into elite shape). I put exercise a bit on hold when on Kratom. Did not completely stop during Kratom , but geared down to doing less intense exercise like slower running. Before Krstom, I liked to do sub 5 min miles, sprint workouts, 18 min 5k and 38 m 10k. Long story short, Kratom seemed to take my focus away from effective athletic training and I am now just beginning to ramp back up. Kratom also did a number on my hobbies, relations with others and ability to multi task and think creatively in work environment or outside of work.

Looking back, Kratom became my focus as the use of it went on both psychologically and physically. Read above about my usage patterns. In the end I was doing 6-8 heaping teaspoons per dose several times a day. And even during the night to avoid WD symptoms. It owned me. Not a good place to be. I was not really planning to quit cold turkey (was thinking about a taper plan), but then found out about a vacation at last moment (surprise from wife) so had to cold turkey as I did not want to deal with potential issues by taking Kratom through customs.

Exercise is what is going to help you get through both AWS (Acute withdrawal symptoms – mostly physical and about 1week if quoting cold turkey) and PAWS (post acute withdrawal symptoms – mostly psychological and about 1 month if quoting cold turkey). Start easy and over time you will be able to get to a place where exercise with intensity eradicates depression and anxiety, at least for a few hours.

During AWS, hot showers, moderate exercise (such as jog/easy run), eating whole foods (more on that below – eating small nutritional meals is best), taking multi vitamins/omega 3 and limited use of phenibut will help (again, be super careful to not use this for more than a few days in order to avoid addiction transfer). A sleeping aid might help with the insomnia, but best to use something OTC like melatonin or something like niquil zzz. AWS is hard. Read my comments above about the physical WD aspect of it. It is best to not be working during AWS. Take a week off, or better, go on vacation. I was on vacation in a foreign country and I think that helped some by not being home where the addiction routines were in full play. Do not be tempted by patterns of Kratom use associated with home if possible when the AWS WD symptoms get intense. This is especially true if you have a left over stash or am tempted to order more.

During PAWS, cold showers also help release endorphins for a couple hours. Hot coffee helps, but don’t overdo it to avoid anxiety symptoms). Eating whole foods is a definite must in order to feed your brain with the nutrients it needs to rebalance. Some foods that work well are fruits such as apples, bananas and cherries (tart are best, but sweet also work), veggies such as red peppers, green beans, asparagus, broccoli, salads (anything green really) and lean proteins like chicken and salmon (omega 3 is a natural AD and helps with inflammation).

Keeping busy will also act as a placebo effect that will take your mind off the WD symptoms during PAWS stage. Keeping busy for me means focusing on my work (I am a software developer), exercising picking up old hobbies ( I enjoy llaying violin a video games) and spending more quality time with family, friends, etc. do not sit around doing nothing during PAWS or you will fall back into negative thought patterns about WD and may relapse back into an Kratom because ‘what is one more time’ to alleviate the motivational flat feeling’. No, do not go there.

In summary during PAWS, keeping busy with work, exercising, eating whole foods that trigger dopamine release, re establishing social interactions helped a lot to return to the prior self before Kratom.

During PAWS, it may be helpful to start on an Antidepressant such as Wellbutrin to rebalance the dopamine in the brain. It will help with the utter lack of motivation that is Omni present during PAWS. However, keep in mind that it takes a few weeks for the AD to become effective. Perhaps talk to your doctor about it. I got on a Wellbutrin script about 3 weeks ago to help with the PAWS and, again, I feel that my base line has risen where I am motivated and generally feel good every day. It also helps with the negative self talk, anxiety and depression that I went through after quoting Kratom back at the beginning of May, 2015.

In summary, you will have a wild ride physically during AWS, but that should be over in a week or a little longer. PAWS will drag on for a long time, but there are steps you can take to help you brain rebalance back to normal ( or above normal in my case). It does take effort every day to counter PAWS, but definitely worth it when you exit the other end. Doing nothing during PAWS may cause it to drag out even longer to 2, 4 or even 6 months (so I have read), so don’t let that happen to you and work on your recovery every day to move towards a goal of returning to normal or even better than normal.

Sorry this is a book, but I do hope some of the comments will help others. There is hope.


8:08 pm June 28th, 2015

Like the blog poster, deep depression has always been the worst part of opiate/opioid/opioid-like withdrawal. With kratom I really don’t get physical symptoms (maybe some loose stools, that’s it). I’ve found that strong black coffee helps with the depression that comes with kratom abstinence. It helps lift things back up, a little. But yes, the despression gets pretty deep — and normally I don’t even suffer from depression. With that in mind: I disagree, personally, with the “take time off of work” advice. Staying at home makes that ‘slow tick-tock’ of the clock much worse; you sit around thinking about your depression, or muscle aches or whatever. At work at least you can stay busy enough to keep your mind off of the fact that you don’t have kratom. Make sense?

dope sic
9:53 pm July 2nd, 2015

If this is just a fraction of what it feels like to kick from real opiates. Oh my God, I tip my hat to those who have kicked. The whole reason I started using kratom was for pain management. I thought it was a non dependency alternative. When I first researched kratom I had read that scientists how found no findings to suggest that you can withdraw from kratom. What a fucking lie. I am four years into my addiction up to about three ounces a day and I am here to tell you I am in hell. I have never been physically addicted to any thing in my life. I am now. So be careful where you get your info online at… and God help me

8:26 pm July 5th, 2015

Hello all. I’m coming off 2 straight years of mostly oxycodone, but kratom, suboxone, and loperamide were in the mix. I’m day 13 free from oxycodone (averaging about 240mg daily) and 86 hours free from kratom. This is the best I’ve done in the last 2 years. Anyway, I’d love to make some suggestions here.

Nigella Sativa. (black seed oil). Has been tremendous help. I can’t recommend this stuff enough. It has been a miracle for me.

In addition to 5htp, kava kava, ashwagandha, and fenugreek. This combination has allowed me to be opiate free for almost 4 days for the first time in 2 years. I have slept 4-5 hours every night, no rls (which normally kills me) and not really suffering much. Still low energy, but mentally feeling strong and physically doing well.

3:37 pm July 6th, 2015

I have been using kratom daily for about 6 months, I started using it to help with paws associated with opiate withdrawal. Kratom was a godsend especially for the sheer exhaustion & aches & pains. I found that months ago I would experience quite substantial withdrawal symptoms as little as 8 hrs post dose. Needless to say I was very upset with myself for not toughing it out. I couldn’t believe I was keeping myself in the same endless situation. Here is the good news, this past weekend being a holiday I ran out, & began dreading all I knew I had to do, esp with my family & small children. But to my surprise the withdrawals were almost nonexistent, a mild exhaustion & some aches but tolerable, in fact I think that it wasn’t necessarily wd’s but normal everyday issues, seems that the kratom got me through the opiate wd’s with no lasting ill effects. Mostly I found it was mental, expect the best & maybe add an antidepressant & an anti anxiety med for sleep. I used heat for the aches & pains & 4 days later I feel absolutely normal!

11:19 pm July 6th, 2015

Ok all here’s what MANY hours of research and personal experience has taught me that will make quitting entirely possible without any real suffering in a realistic way.. Cold Turkey isn’t a good option! If you know your hooked then buy yourself a 3-week supply and go down 1gram a day from your current habit and start taking it with 2grams of turmeric with it every time! Turmeric increases it’s effectiveness and also provides anti-inflammatory relief on it’s own along with MANY other health benefits and will allow you to feel just as good while tapering down and then once down to 3grams kratom cut the turmeric down to 1grams and add a little cayenne pepper and black pepper then once down to 1gram kratom continue taking 1gram turmeric, 1 gram kratom and sprinkle of cayenne and black pepper every morning for 1 week then cut the kratom out entirely but continue with the turmeric/cayenne/black pepper every morning. This WILL work.. Read up for yourselves on dosage for cayenne/turmeric/black pepper/piperine. There are other supplement that will help including but not limited too: Lemon Balm, Magnesium, B-vitamin complex, Sculcap, Passion flower, Damiana, Rhodiola, Theanine. The thing with the turmeic and cayenne and black pepper or it’s extract form: piperine is that they all work synergystically together and with kratom providing a mood lift and help with digestion and anti-inflamotory properties so that as your kratom dosage goes down they not only boost the strength of your lowering dose but will provide enough feel good of their own you’ll be able to stick to the regimen without feeling like total shite.. and trust me i know how horrrrible it is to go cold turkey.. Don’t wish it on my worst enemy! If you can afford it buy curcumin extract in place of tumeric and Piperine in place of black pepper. I’ve been able to cut kratom dosages in HALF by taking with curcumin/cayenne/piperine and felt better then just with twice as much kratom alone. Your looking at 1 month total but it will be painless and you may want to stay on the supplements afterwards as they are amazingly good for you beyond the W/D help. Lemon Balm/Passion flower/Sculcap/kava root together will put you in a serious calm to help sleep and muscle tension. All of these things are available at health stores and Amazon. Hope this helps!!! Kratom is a damn good substance if you use it here n there but once hooked is habit that can ruin your life as much as it improved it at first.

buy kratom capsules
9:22 am July 8th, 2015

Congratulations! Thank you so much for taking the time to share this exciting information.

7:01 pm July 18th, 2015

So i used to be addicted to heroin and got clean then a few months later i heard of kratom and done a little bit of research and couldnt really find anything bad about it and i heard it helps recovering addicts. So before i knew it i started waking up sick every day again and this went on for about 6 months 15-25g a day, anyway last monday i decided enough was enough and i stopped taking the kratom, the first couple days were pretty bad, heavy flu like symptoms and joint/muscle pain rls etc. then i road out the next few days but now im on my 6th day without kratom and i still feel anxous, have slight rls/insomnia still, chest always feels tight and walking long distances makes me out of breath. Even though i beat the worst part these wd symptoms are not diminishing as fast as i thought they would and every day im still sick just makes it that much more annoying. Any idea how much longer untill im physically 100%? Mental wd i can deal with its the lethargic feeling and constant aches that annoy me

1:31 pm July 28th, 2015

Hap;I’ve been on mostly mean da caps (15-25g a day,bottle of extract when I wanna really get off the ground) for 18months.Been trying to quit for about half of that time and usually cave in 2-4 days into WD.I’ve been through hydro and oxycone WD which is much more miserably intense,and quit a pack a day smoking habit 17yrs ago but kratom WD is no joke.The easy accessibility of it(a head shop 2miles from my house) keeps the compulsion to use whispering in my ear constantly. I’ve lost 35 lb(people always asking if I’m sick or something) lost interest in writing music, sex, and am seldom motivated to do anything after 8 hrs of work but layabout and read or listen to music.Not a very interesting existence. I’ve made an absolute mess of my finances( probably spent about 8grand on the stuff) and had to take out a to pay for an 18 month bender.I’ve had it.I’m done.Whatever it takes, a day at a time.I do not want a rerun of the past week of feeling absolutely miserable and sleepless.I’m on day 8 clean and have finally got 6-8 hrs.of sleep 2 nights in a row and feel OK. I want to thank everybody who’s shared here, its been great to not feel alone. Things that help me get this far clean have been ; leveling with my wife(who’s been wondering what the hells been wrong with me) taking a few days off from work, to get through the worst of the depression, sweats,RLS and the misery of not being able to sleep. A good batch of kava kava has helped a bit.Trying to meditate (stay in the moment),my faith and considering what will or might happen if I pick up again is keeping heading in the right direction.Good luck to everybody who wants to get free from this plant.

8:13 am August 1st, 2015

I’ve been using ultra mang da for 7 months and I know I finally need to quit. Tired of wondering how long my supply will last, will I have enough to get me through the weekend, what if delivery is delayed and it doesn’t come till next day, when can I sneak away for my next dose, never mind the cost for the ultra mang da. Time to stop!! Someone gave me Subs to help with withdrawals. Any suggestions about this? I can’t take the withdrawals. I physically get sick for days.

2:44 am August 4th, 2015

Hi. I am needing some help and information about kicking my Kratom addiction. My story begins like most everyone elses. I am a recovering opiat addict and was clean for 4 years. Then I read about Kratom. Now a year later I’m addicted to Kratom and I am so ready to stop but the fear of withdrawal is holding me back. I have decided to do the tapering method and use all the tips that Erik suggeste. My concern is this…. #1 I am not buying or using the all natural (if their is even such of a thing). I am buying prepackaged Bali Kratom from a local head shop and I have no idea where he gets it. There are 20 in a package and I’m up to 15 at a time twice daily. They are 10mg each capsule. I was recently told that I should never take anything that is prepackaged b/c you never know what Else has been added to it. But it was the cheapest I found and it actually gave me the effects that I was looking for. So I’m wondering if w/d would be relatively the same? One thing I have noticed from Reading every body’s blog, is that even though the symptoms are the same some seem to be more severe than others. That being said I know that there is no way to definitively how my withdraw might be. My # 2 concern which is actually the most important concern that I have, is my husband knowing I am going through withdrawal. He has been through literal hell with me in the 17years we have been married due to my addiction. He was so proud and finally starting to relax a little and not worry about me relapsing. I did not tell him about the Kratom, but like always, he found out last week. I convinced him I stopped right away and I was having no w/d what so ever. I also told him I was only taking 3 at bed time and had only been doing it 3 months…. He has lived through my w/d many many times and he knows what it looks like. He is soon going to be traveling out of town for 4 nights and 5 days so my plan is to begin the tapering as Erik suggest now, and stop cold turkey the day he leaves. That doesn’t give me much time to taper down b4 going cold turkey. I want to be honest with him and tell him I lied AGAIN and my Kratom stent was much more severe than I told him. But I don’t know if he has another relapse, lie, or fight left in him. I feel like such a falier and I’m so angry and guilt ridden that I have put him through this again. I’m not sure that anything can be said that someone haven’t already advised. And I can not tell you how happy I was to stumble upon this blog. I truly can not believe I have gotten myself back in this situation! Any advice, encouragment or words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated. Oh and one more thing. I have cut my using by 1/2 over the past 3 days…. Taking 15 once daily instead of twice daily. And I don’t even do that until after 5pm.

2:52 pm August 4th, 2015

Well, to begin, my qualifications is going through withdrawal…IDK, between 30 to 50 times. Prescribed for herniated discs, having 3 back surgeries and rods and screws put in my spine and being on them like 8 years or so. Never had a script that I didn’t run out of early. Every opiate/opioid, synthetic and natural, I took at some point. I had a tolerance that would kill multiple people that didn’t have a tolerance if they took that amount. That being said, a LOT of it all is mental. Worrying about it just makes it worse. Your addiction WANTS you to worry about it so you keep at it. You’ll find some reason or other to justify continuing. That’s addiction, and it’s the slyest and most clever thing you can imagine. I imagine you’re spending ridiculous amounts buying capsules from a headshop. Anyways, don’t bite off more than you can chew. You’ll just suffer and then go back and it was all for nothing. Drop down 10% each week. Meaning when you get to one a day you take 9/10th’s of a capsule. That doesn’t mean “okay I take 10 so I go to nine, then 8, then 7, etc…10% of whatever dose you just finished your week on. At first you might be able to do 20%. If successful then keep at it. Eventually if it gets rough then do 15%. Then 10. There is no one size fits all taper. No shortcuts. Taking something else (benzo’s or phenibut is not a solution) that you get a tolerance to is just trading a broken leg for a broken arm. Your body will tell you what pace to go at. Everyone is different and two people could take the same amount for the same length and one will have a harder time. No one on here can tell you what amount to drop each week. If you taper slow enough it’s a walk in the park. Oh, except addiction will want something to feed on. It’s all mental with a slow taper, You’re either ready or you’re not. There’s only one way to find out. I can tell you though that the biggest mistake people make is trying to do too much too fast and then they fail and go back. Once you’re off then it’s a new battle. Good day, bad day, addiction will find some reason to get you to go back because this time you’ll only take it once a week or whatever. It’s a daily battle and that day is what you need to concentrate on. You can go down more initially and then it will become harder the lower you go UNLESS you reduce smaller amounts as you go. Passionflower, ginger for stomach issues, multi-vitamins, magnesium glycinate with an equal amount of calcium, all those can help some to a degree. However, tianeptine is a lifesaver which enhances your serotonin production, increases dopamine, and is a slight opiate itself although very minimally. It’s a prescription in Europe and found to be more tolerable and easier to stop than anti-depressants here. IF YOU ALREADY TAKE AN ANTI-DEPRESSANT then I would think twice about taking it though. Buy as much as you can in bulk and get a scale and you’ll save a ton (powdercity – dot- com). The other real life saver though is kava kava. NOT extracts or some other crap, but instant kava is a good compromise since you just mix with a drink and doing the traditional method with root is a lot of work (nakamal at home or bula kava house are some things to google for that one). It’s like a benzo but you get no tolerance. In fact, the more you drink it the more effective it becomes. Sleep, anxiety, mood, it helps (I mean really) all of it. Some more effective helpers are semax and selank (ceretropic – dot- com), which slow the breakdown of enkephalins, which your natural opiates (endorphins) are a part of. By slowing down the degradation it builds it up. They also help enhance serotonin and dopamine (you’re mood neurotransmitters). They only work as a nasal spray though, orally they do nothing. Anyways, little bites. This isn’t a sprint, it’s a marathon and giving your all from the start is a great way to lose a marathon. Find your pace. No one can do it for you or has a secret “abracadabra, now you’re off” method. It’s up to you now. That initial feeling is gone and it’s not coming back. All your getting now is an empty wallet and the risk of your relationship. The next dose wait 30 minutes and then ask whether it’s worth it all. If it’s not (and it isn’t), then realize that big drops are worse for you in the long run. The people who feel bad months after their last are the one’s who got off too fast. It’s called Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome and you get it by not going at a pace that your body (or brain actually) recovers at. This isn’t just a opiate, but affects serotonin and norepinephrine as well. That makes it an opiate and an anti-depressant. People feel bad a looooooong time when they jump off an anti-depressant. You need to take the stairs or you will A) fail, or B) have lingering withdrawals for a long time. Probably the same amount of time you could have slowly tapered and gotten off a LOT easier. Sorry, I know I’m not the best encourager and motivation speech giver, but hopefully you gained something from all that. Feel free to ask any questions.

3:01 pm August 4th, 2015

Oh, and going from twice a day to once a day is a recipe for failure. Reduce the quantity, not the frequency or you’ll be on a rollercoaster of ups and downs and watching the clock half the day. You want to be stable throughout the day and keep yourself feeling the same throughout the day.

9:58 pm August 4th, 2015

I am posting again after going on another 3 month run with kratom and phenibut almost everyday dosing a couple times a day. Also using extracts as well as plain leaf this time. I am now on my fifth day clean again. I attribute my last relapse a lot to Sam-e which i thought was helping which I posted up above. In hindsight it was giving me energy throughout the day but completely disturbing my sleep at night. I don’t think it ever allowed my mind to heal. This time I am going with a healthy diet, vitamins, exercise and pacing myself at work as much as I can until my energy comes back. I was reading your post above kimmie. The biggest hurdle is the lack of sleep for me. But if you can get 5 days in I think after that you can fake until you make it with your husband although I think you would be better off telling him. Maybe telling him after you got 5 days clean when he comes back. You are going to need his support to remain clean

11:51 pm August 6th, 2015

Dustin and Bark, Thank you both so much for the helpful information and words of encouragement…. Dustin the last small post you added at the end was like you jumped right into my head and read my mind!! That is EXACTLY what I had spent the last several days doing. Just setting around all day looking at the clock waiting for my afternoon feel good. Which by the way never came because it doesn’t do that for me anymore. What an insane vicious cycle. Bark I know you are right and I hope to eventually come clean to my husband. Dustin my biggest issue right nowi….. Thanks to this “kratom brain” that I now seem to have I’m not sure how to taper down Using he method you suggest. And that IS how I want to do it…. So for the sake of easy math, I take 200 mg daily OMG!!!! Saying it that way sounds ridiculously high!!!! But if each gelcap is 10 mg, and I take 10 Gelcaps in the morning and 10 iGelcaps in the evening that’s 200 mg daily…. How many gelcaps would I cut out if I stopped taking 10%? OMG!!! This sounds like a 3rd grade math book question!!!! And I sound like a complete idiot. I Would also like your thoughts on starting my tapering down with just 10 a day, because like I said in my earlier post I have only been taking 10 a day for almost a week and I’m not having any physical withdrawal at all. Mental yes!! But not physical…. Anyway I think that’ about covers it for now. I’m so ready to get this all behind me.

7:05 pm August 7th, 2015

Kimmie I don’t think you were taking 200 mg a day. That is actually a very tiny dose that would only be 1/5 of a gram. What I would say is more likely is that each gelcap you took was .75 grams which would equal a dose of 7.5 grams at 10 gelcaps. which would be a pretty normal dose. I used to take between 10-15 gelcaps at a dose twice a day along with extracts so it is not as bad as you think. To be honest tapering for me never works I always find a way in my mind to justify taking more. If you can do it good for you. I am now day 8 finally had a good night of sleep last night but my energy is still way low and anxiety is high. It is the exact opposite of kratom where you feel calm but have all kinds of energy. I have no energy yet I am a nervous wreck especially when dealing with any kind of stress. Took a run last night on the treadmill for 30 mins and ran about half the distance I normaly do when I am on kratom or other opiates. I decided I am going to use that as a gauge for knowing that I am getting better by seeing how my sober self cathes up to my kratom self in running distances plus it helps to calm me.

12:14 pm August 8th, 2015

Hello, Its good to know I am not alone with Kratom addiction. I would not wish anyone to go through this. I started taking Kratom to get off opiates about 8 months ago. All I have done is swap one addiction for another. I am currently doing a taper and took 11 grams yesterday. I hope to knock off one gram a day until I stop completely. Last night I only got a little sleep so already I am experiencing difficulties. The biggest problem is lack of energy and focus for work. I am finding it very difficult now with still some way to go but I do prefer to taper rather than just stop and having very bad anxiety and depression. Right now I don’t feel too bad. Its probably because I have read so much from all you nice people. Thank you for sharing your experiences. It does help me. Maybe I can get some support and support others while over coming my addiction. I would like my life back rather than have to take this stuff all the time just to feel normal. Thanks for reading.

9:48 am August 9th, 2015

I just took ten grams yesterday which is good. I was taking up to 28 grams a day about a week ago. I am really pleased with progress even though I feel a bit ruff. I have little energy and enthusiasm. I ate much better yesterday. Lots of fish and fruit. I slept ok last night but woke at 3.30 am this morning which does make life a bit weird. I did smoke a little hashish and drank a little wine to help get me to sleep. Today I am going to try and take just 8 grams which will be a mixture of white and red vein. I was taking a lot of Sumatran white and its very strong. I don’t have much red vein left but I am not going to buy anymore Kratom. I have plenty for my taper and will in the end throw away the rest. I hope. I am lucky as I can do just half days at work if I want to. It would be good to work all day to keep me occupied but I do not have much energy and its difficult to concentrate. Here’s to the future. I am done with Kratom. It will no doubt take a few weeks to return to normal but that’s just part of the healing process. Best wishes to you all.

7:15 pm August 10th, 2015

Day 11 the weekend went fine I had enough energy to run 30 min both Saturday and Sunday and mow on Saturday. I had to push myself through everything physical I did though and i pretty much lounged around the rest of the wknd. Today I worked a half day and I think the worst part for me is that for one I am a nervous wreck at work, for two I have no energy and for three I get no joy out of doing it without the aid of kratom. I just cannot get motivated and I know all that would change with one dose. I know that my brain chemicals are completely depleted and will take time to come back to normal. But it is going to be a struggle for a while I know that. Pray for me that I can overcome this and I will do the same for you.

4:32 pm August 11th, 2015

Bark you are correct about tapeeing down. For me that just didnt seem to work. If it’s here, I’m gonna take it. And I’m going to take it the way I always take it. I took my last 14 yesterday at 4pm and to be honest I felt nothing. So today is my official day to go Kratom free. My biggest dread is restless body tonight when I go to bed… I have always said that I’m glad my drug of choice were opiates and not alchol b/c alcohol is legal and you can buy it anywhere. Well now so is my drug of choice. I pray I will be able to stay away from the head shops. I know I can do this. I know evwey single one of us can b/c people beat addiction every day. I was clean for years when I found Kratom. Best of luck to everyone. Bart I will continue praying for you and everyone else on this blog who is fighting to get their lives back. So thankful I have the forum to encourage and be encouraged… I’ll let yall know how my 1st 24 hours go!! So proud of the success many of you are having!! I can’t wait to say I’m on day 11 and still Kratom free ?

4:10 pm August 15th, 2015

Kimmie good luck I will keep you in my prayers. keep us posted on how you are doing. day 16 today. I had one night where i really felt like I was coming out of this fog otherwise all 16 days have been a battle. For me the PAWS is worse than the acute withdrawals the seemingly never-ending days of low energy and high anxiety all while trying to work full time at a stressful job and raise two kids under four. The PAWs is where I would always relapse before by day 15 or so I would think well if this is what i feel like normal without drugs or alcohol then screw it. Well now I have a better understanding of how PAWS works and it helps me to think that I am definitely not back to normal and that I realistically have alot longer than a couple weeks before I am feeling 100 percent. Having that knowledge seems to help me not get to discouraged because I know that I am really only about 60 % back to normal and that I need to stick with it to return back to my somewhat normal self. In the Past I have also noticed that PAWS can be a roller coaster ride where you feel pretty good for a couple days then all of a sudden you are back to feeling like the world is caving in around you. if there was a graph for drug addiction recovery it would up and down ultimately going up instead of a steady gradual climb upward. Otherwise I was wandering if any one else has had issues with thinning hair I feel like my hair is dead right now and before I started kratom I had a full head of thick hair. I have also noticed when I have quit for a couple months before my hair felt a lot more healthy.

1:34 pm August 18th, 2015

I am on day 3 of no kratom and feel pretty normal. I dont know if the worse is yet to come, but am hopeful that I wont experience any wd. I used for about 3 months, every day, not sure how much, but am guessing around 10-15 grams spaced throughout the day. I started using kratom to help with opiate wds, it helped and I should have stopped sooner, but was scared of wds. Kratom didnt do much for me as far as getting a buzz or a high. It did give me a little energy, and I think it was just being able to take something, like having a crutch. I always ordered different strains, so maybe that’s what helped me to avoid withdrawals. Just letting everyone know, not everyone experiences wds, sometimes we read so many scary stories we can actually talk ourselves into feeling bad or we use that as an excuse to keep using. Ive been addicted to either pain pills, poppy tea, alcohol, you name it for well over 5 years, so I do know what wds feel like, maybe I just got lucky, or maybe the worse is yet to come, I dont know, but after 3 days with nothing I feel normal, bored but normal. If anything happens in next few days I will report, but for now just know not everyone will have wds from kratom

12:14 am August 19th, 2015

Day 19
Well I have noticed some of the withdrawal symptoms start to shed. My body temperature regulation has started to normalize. For about the fist two weeks it seemed like I was hot or freezing. When I was driving in the car I would have my A/C full blast one minute and heat full blast the next. I have definitely noticed a more controlled temp regulation in my body. Also my anxiety levels have dropped significantly. My energy levels are still way low and still having choppy sleep. I have been praying for calm in my life and the strength to get through and it has been helpful. I have also spent almost all of my free time reading about withdrawals and Paws and other people’s experiences with them. Honestly I have an incredible interest in drug addiction and the minds of addicts as I’m sure most of us do. I have been to one AA meeting and I would like to go more often but my top priority with the little energy and time I have right now is to keep my job and help my wife take care of the house and kids. She has taken up most of the slack lately and I am very grateful for that. Once my energy starts coming back I am going to attend more meeting and start working the program. I know a lot of the people in Aa or NA say 90 meetings in 90 days and I would love to do that but I just do not have the energy after working a hard day in construction and helping take care of kids and household after work. I feel like some In AA look down on me for this and then I ask them if they were working full time, raising a family and combatting withdrawals while doing 90 and 90 and often the answer is that most were not working and had no responsiblities because they had already lost their jobs and families. I don’t alway know what the right thing to do is other than just trying to stay sober one day at a time. Any insight on the AA thing would be appreciated.

5:03 am August 19th, 2015

yes I withdrew of kractom 3 years ago,now I do suffer with manic depression (bipolar-disorder) but had no idea at the time that kractom was so addictive.well my experience was I could hardly pull myself out of bed,and when I did I experienced cripiling depression and sadness where there was no light at the end of the tunnel.i was despondent and even suicidal,i wish that someone had warned me off the withdrawls.well I think kractom is a fabulous gift from nature if treated with great respect ,and never go cold turkey off currently using it for chronic pain relief,for arthritis of the spine and knees,and it has allowed me to come of doctors opioates pain meds eg tramadol+dihydrocodeine,but I make sure I never run out +if I withdrawl it will be cut back bit by bit.

5:48 am August 22nd, 2015

I just wanted to let everybody know on here that I’m extremely appreciative that you all shared your stories, it has inspired me to do what’s best for my family and myself and detox from this plant and to know I’m not alone.addictions of painkillers has ruled my life and I found kratom and thought it would help me live a happier healthy life but all it has done is brought on a new addiction to fight.with depression and anxiety a huge burden in my life kratom has also cured that part of me but theirs always a catch,just like they say (if it seems to good to be true it probably is).my final thought on this post is that Kratom is a very special gift from nature if used correctly and not abused.unfortunatley my addictive personality has not allowed that to work for me.thank you to anyone who has taken the time to read this and if anyone has any advice it would be very much appreciated. thank you to all of you from the bottom of my heart

2:25 pm August 22nd, 2015

Day 23
Yesterday is the closest I have been to relapse. I actually had an opiate in my pocket. I had a really exhausting week of work . My mind felt completely depleted of endorphins and adrenaline. I still had to get through picking the kids up, making dinner for them and trying to clean the house that that they destroyed the night before. I had a rush of negative thoughts and emotions all day and a frustrating job to deal with. I had had taken about 600 mg of caffeine throughout the day which was doing nothing for me. This is how relapse has happened so many times before. By the grace of God I never took the pill. This morning I have woken up feeling anxious I need to cut down on the caffeine I think it is making me sick. I also have been having this recurring dream since I stopped and it is the night before two a day football practices my senior year in high school and I am going into full blown withdrawal. I really want to quit the opiates at this point but feel there is no way I can make it through and have a good season if I don’t use all the way through. So I feel I am in a dilemma to use for several months a couple times a day or not use and miss out on one of the highlights of my life.

11:58 pm August 25th, 2015

Day 26 kratom free
Today marks three years to the day that I picked up Kratom the first time. The reason I remember that is because the day I took it the first time my brother’s body was found that night from suicide. I want to believe that kratom was put in my life at that very time for a reason. If I did not have it to get through those first initial couple of months I may have become an alcoholic mess. What is crazy was I called him that day to tell him about kratom. according to the coroner he was already gone. I dosed kratom everyday that first week to get through the funeral, calling hours and all the people stopping by and calling. To this day I am not sure if it was a blessing or a curse. whether it was or not does not change the fact that I need to eliminate it from my life at this point and learn how to live life sober. I really don’t know how to cope sober. alcohol and drugs have been a crutch for so long. I am trying to exercise, eat right and give myself enough rest but I feel like I am still missing something. Any advice would be appreciated.

8:38 am August 28th, 2015

i used kratom for about 18 months slowly go more habitual till i was taking about 20-30 grams a day…. went cold turkey it was hell… the hopelessness is the worst part of it and it lingers but if you stand strong you will gradually return to normal…. took me about a month as well to feel like me…. after the first week every day is a little easier tho.

2:03 am September 1st, 2015

I tend to use Kratom 2-3 times a day, but mostly twice a day. Once in the morning and then again after lunch. It’s helped my life in immensely positive ways. I’ve had more energy, been more creative, more driven, exercising more. I’ve also been less interested in weed, alcohol or energy supplements. This was partly how I shifted to Kratom as I was looking for a healthier alternative to those addictions. I’m sure to an extent that Kratom is much better than resorting to at least the alcohol or large quantities of energy supplements. However, I have not wanted to be dependent on Kratom either. I would love to go days without it, since it is pretty pricey to be taking everyday and who knows if long term use is dangerous to ones health.

I’ve run out of Kratom and not received my next order and felt the withdrawal symptoms immediately the next day. It’s very expensive if you order frequently. The days I’ve tried to go without Kratom I’ve felt very lethargic. Lethargy and brain fog are the major withdrawal symptoms felt when I go a day without Kratom. Even if I get 8 hours of sleep and drink a ton of energy drinks, nothing helps to get rid of the lethargy and brain fog. I’m completely unmotivated. Granted I recall that before I started taking Kratom I would be lethargic and felt unmotivated as well. This is how I would up my energy powder substances. I have of course been to a physician and have had various tests that all checkout fine. They show all my levels are where they need to be. The only issue or conclusion is that I just lead a very busy and sometimes stressed life working all the time and this makes one tired all the time. I’m sure half the U.S. or the working class knows what this is like. I also have the depression anxiety genetics down the family line.

As it stands, I don’t want to be dependent on Kratom, but I don’t take as much per day as I’ve read others have done. I’ll take 1 1/2 teaspoons in the morning and 1 1/2 teaspoons in the afternoon. I assume that’s pretty safe. Obviously I’m on this board out of curiosity to see if others have had the lethargy, brain fog, and unmotivated symptoms when trying to dissolve or reduce the Kratom intake. Just trying to research the positive and/or negative effects to Kratom use.

3:40 am September 2nd, 2015

Day 33 with no kratom
Tyler I was just reading your post above and yes the brain fog and low energy are definitely symptoms of withdrawal. You are lucky that you are still taking fairly low doses, I would say quit while you are ahead. At 33 days I am still getting chills, sneezing and the fatigue is driving me insane. I do have to say that I have had some descent days where I have felt pretty good but the biggest issue is the fatigue and lack of drive. I am working full time, have 2 kids and have been trying to exercise mostly on the weekends when I am not completely dead from the work day. but I just feel like everything is an extreme chore My Wife still has been shouldering most of the load with the kids and I feel pretty bad about that but it is almost like I am paralyzed with exhaustion. Like you Tyler I have been taking massive amounts of caffeine to get through the days. Just remember the deeper you go into this hole the harder it is going to be to climb out and if you have any type of addictive personality your use and tolerance will only increase. Some of the good things in my first 33 days is that I feel like I have gotten off the roller coaster of my mood being all over the place and irritable. I have been real even keel even if my mood is not up where I want it to be. I am keeping hope that my energy levels are going to eventually return and that my mood will elevate in time. I feel like I am not a slave to my next dose which is a big relief. I still feel like I miss the Kratom every day and there is not an hour that goes by that I don’t think about it. I am definatley struggling and would greatly appreciate any support or advice anyone could offer

6:01 pm September 2nd, 2015

day 34 of no kratom
I have been reading a lot of the comments today and one thing that kind of bothers me is all these people that say they have kicked this addiction after like 9 days or 12 days or 20 days. I would say that might be the case if you were only using for a couple weeks. The fact is if these people wrote everyday for 2 months straight you would see One or two days out of ten where they were really feeling really good and that they have come through on the other side. Maybe I have a different brain chemistry but it has been 34 days and I still feel extremely unmotivated. I was also using kratom for 3 years. But I am just saying that feeling like you have kicked this in just a couple days can be a trap and has been for me in the past. I would feel really good one day and think I was out of the woods and then the next day I would feel like the world was coming to an end. Paws is very unpredictable, I would say in early sobriety relish the good days but expect to have more bad days as well so that when they come you will not be completely blind sided and decide that if this is how you feel sober than what is the point of being clean. I am not trying to bring anyone down but looking back on other times I have tried to quit I remember feeling really good one day like I was a new man and then relapsing a couple days later because I was extremely fatigued and depressed. any other insights or thoughts on this would be appreciated

3:16 am September 3rd, 2015

it will be illegal in year; especially with people using and posting all the details like yourself Justin…I understand the very close parallels of how kratom effects the same receptors as opiates/opiods, but it does not act as a true opiate. this is especially true how the body processes the substance……honestly….and coldly… i am sorry for saying this…..but if you were after this certain high/euphoria that opiates offer then needed to use to stave off WD’s. why not go with oxy, vicos, morph, any of these would be comparably stronger. then you would access to professional drug treatment facilities catering to that type of drug…….Basically.., its like prohibition beginning because someone said they are an alcoholic due to wine coolers, and still only use and need to drink wine coolers to feel normal…..sorry im an asshole, but kratom is an herb that actually has helpful effect for people who are not strangers to drugs/alcohol and can help out immensely with very strong opiate withdrawals, as well as other substance withdrawal symptoms… caffeine becoming illegal cause someone noticed they dont feel well without caffeine for a while to couple of days…….you are simply strengthening the argument to make illegal a very effective opiate withdrawal trea tment that is so much safer than suboxone/methadone, and importantly much more accesible

10:38 pm September 3rd, 2015

Day 35 kratom free
I just wanted to say that I just got done with a 30 min hard run and have to say that I feel really good. I have been in a real funk this last week and I feel like maybe I’m finally starting to come out of this nightmare. I wanted to post this because I know I have been negative and for someone starting at day 1 it has got to be hard reading about someone just past a month and still struggling. I want to give hope that it will get better if you keep fighting for one more day of sobriety. I still don’t think I am completely out of the woods but today I have hope.